English Votes for English Laws

Good post Bez, and you have said it all really.
DJen are you Scottish? if not, and you are English, then why are you getting so worked up about something that could be good for England?
it's been a long time coming, and a good thing too, and only fair as Scotland has it's own powers, likewise Wales and Northern Ireland.What's all the fuss about?

When I last looked, nobody polices borders in England Wales and Scotland, unless there is a sort of checkpoint Charlie set up overnight.

What is difficult for some to understand, Scotland has 59 MP's , Wales 40 MP's, N Ireland 18 MP's, England 533 , has there ever really be fairness ? If the three smaller countries voted together they could always be out voted by England , it's so difficult.

Scotland was promised more powers in order to keep it in the union. Then the government tried to renege on the deal by saying it would only happen if there were English laws for English people. At the moment it's a slogan, that's all.
I do not like to see unfairness anywhere. We have not been told what it means. We have no idea what English laws are, compared with UK laws and EU laws.

If the government is so sure that that's what the English want, why can we not have a proper debate and a referendum on it?
Why does it have to be forced through in the next few days, before they go on holiday? Surely something as important as this deserves better.

By the way, roses, I am not a little Englander, however you define that phrase. I have never thought of myself as English, but British, like lots of other people born in England.
Yorkshire next.

As we have no say in the laws of our own country , well 40 votes against 533 , I think there should be a proper debate,

What is the population of Wales compared to the population of England anniebach?
Could that have something to do with it, do you think?

It needs to be done quickly because it was promised that it would be done quickly.The sooner it's sorted out the better for all concerned. yes Scotland will get more powers once the English laws are in place.I do not like to see unfairness either, that's why Scottish MP's should not vote on anything that just concerns England.I imagine that it IS what the majority of people here in England want, why wouldn't they?
I was pleased that Scottish people decided to remain part of the Union , although it was by a small margin.If they ever have another referendum on it and decide to go, then so be it, I guess we will survive!I Will feel sorry for the people there though that didn't want to leave, and wonder if the SNP will live up to expectations if they ever do go it Alone,it could all go horribly wrong for them.
There is nothing wrong in having laws that have only to do with England and English MP's voting on them.It's no good going on about ancient laws etc because we have handed powers to Scotland Wales and NI and they now vote on things that are exclusive to their own countries.
there is nothing for anyone to worry about.

Anniebach, at least Wales has a Labour government, not that it seems to be doing the country much good apart from free prescriptions.

I've just googled so I'll answer my own question.
In 2013, England had 53.9 million people and Wales had 3.1 million.
So if England has 533 MPs compared to Wales' 40, people in Wales actually have proportionally more representation in the Westminster Parliament than English people do.
On top of that, the Welsh people have their own Assembly which English people don't, so I don't think they could complain that their views are not represented.

DJen, I should think that a fair few of G'netters are Scottish and think of themselves as such as well as British, and I am sure that Anniebach thinks of herself as Welsh. I am English as are many others on here, English first, British second, just as most people in this country think, Scots, and Welsh People too. it's this same old thing again,that somehow you can be 'proud' of being a Scot or a Welsh person, but not English people, sssh! We must say British only. it's quite mad.You used that phrase beloved of some '.......little Englander' which is merely an insult and not what I asked you at all, I asked if you were English, because I Really thought you must be a Scot. you were so delighted by the SNP around election time.
it would be rather nice if we could ever get back to a bit of reasoned debate on at least one thread!

Fox - I dont think I will be bothered if a fox crosses into scotland!
Farming - I didnt understand your point.
Transport - lots of airports, train stations and roads too etc only affect England, so English law for most of that.

Yes there are some overlaps to things, but plenty that just affect England in my opinion. Doable.

Looks like it is going to happen, so has to be doable?

Our borders are policed rosesareread. The coastguard.

I could be wrong on any of that! But I dont think so?

The coastline is policed Soon, not the border between England and Scotland or for that matter between England and Wales, we are all as free to come and go as we like.

Ana, not griping, just mentioned the MP's etc because I don't think there can ever be an agreement which be equally fair to the four countries , as it is now it's unfair N .ireland, Wales and Scotland can vote on the English NHS yet there are not enough MP's to vote against any proposals anyway

I'd like reasoned debate about it. That's why I started the thread. Again you say "just as most people in this country think".
How do you know?
A referendum would sort that out. We do not know what the government means by English laws . Until we do, we cannot debate reasonably.

Who is this 'you' you are addressing drj?

DJen, think about it, why would English people be against making things a bit more fair for their own country.Why on earth do you think that even if there was a referendum the answer would be 'no thanks , we like the unfairness of it just the way it is'. so it seems reasonable to imagine that most people would be for it.

I call the coast, part of England borders.
Perhaps I am using the wrong word.

I think that the question about the Scottish/Welsh/Irish MPs voting on English issues is more to do with the fact that if the opposition party disagrees with the Govt. on some legislation which only affects England - such as Health or Education- it would be possible for the combined votes of the Scottish/ Welsh/ Irish MPs to vote with the opposition and depending on the majority not allow the legislation through. Much of the legislation does apply to the whole UK but if one area ' country' is not affected then fair enough they should abstain or not be able to vote.
It is being rushed through but over the years laws which in retrospect have been seen to be bad laws have been repealed.

The coastline around Britain of course are our borders Soon!But we do not have borders as such between our countries,they are in name only borders .Surely you know this?

With all respect! Scotland is a kingdom. Wales is a principality

I will agree to disagree with you rosesarered about borders.

The ISO has said Wales is a country, the term principality is archaic because the PoW has no powers in Wales ,having a PoW was the reason Wales was classed a principality centuries ago

If the English want to vote on things that affect them, why do they not want to go the whole way and allow other countries the same rights as they want?
Why did they promise so much to keep Scotland in the union, then complain when Scotland asked for what it was promised?
If they want to be English, why do they want to rule three other areas?

Last time I looked, Wales had its own Assembly with members elected only by the Welsh electorate, passing legislation applying to Wales. Sorry to put in a link because I know a lot of people don't like them but it does sometimes help to check the facts. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_for_Wales. What makes the whole thing nonsense on stilts is that many laws passed in NI, Scotland and Wales do affect the rest of the UK and England has no representation in any of those assemblies. Those areas, of course, do have representation in the Westminster Parliament. Double representation for every country of the UK except for England.