English Votes for English Laws

But Bercow's an extremely partisan individual. He'll be relishing his new powers...how ridiculous!

It's suppose to come in before the summer recess Ana, lawyers have said it cannot be done this way , there are no lines drawn as in Scotland and Wales

Education and NHS yes, housing yes, roads ? Very few in England have to drive to Wales, we have to drive through England to get out of the UK , is this English only ? trivial but just an example of how many grey areas there are

Anniebach

Whilst grannyonce is perfectly capable of speaking for herself, my guess would be her comment re 'racism' was in response to another poster not yourself, could be wrong of course.

My money would be on the recent post that said -

"The English believe they are superior to other members of the United Kingdom. Hell the English see themselves as superior to the whole world"

Sad comment really. I thought the thread had been debating rather calmly then the ugly head of bigotry showed up but there you go, proves a point that was made previously re hatred so I guess it had a use for the thread after all.

"Hell, the English see themselves superior to whole world"
Change English to The British isles and that's how I feel.

Oh POGS, was that racist? A person from one part of a country giving her opinion on another part of the country . The racist card is so easy to play , it's not just the UK which is divided but England is by the North South divide and frustration explodes. Is anger not understandable when cities like Hull and Liverpool have to start charities appealing for clothes for children ready for the winter months, knitting groups are setting up to supply this need , I would be devastated if that was an appeal from North Wales , what is difficult for me personally is not knowing the areas posters live in , you could be in hull but I don't think you are, yet I could be so wrong . It's was partly religion and partly poverty and injustice which caused the divide in Ireland not racism and I think this is the cause of the divide in England too - not religion , I am looking as an outsider . I don't care if England has an assembly , why not, I am against the rushing through of a serious constitutional change in the UK Parliament which will cause more bitterness . In fairness to the Scots Cameron laid on with a trowel how important it was that we keep the union, now he is doing more to split it than Salmon could and that takes some doing . I do respect your views on this and appreciate your courtesy in exchange of posts

Durham has clothes banks along with the food banks as well, Annie.
I'd be very surprised if POGS was from the North. She does not sound like anyone I know from Hull or the North East.

Well said, Annie. You actually realise what the thread is about, the indecent haste to get this rushed through before the majority of the English realise what's hit them. We do not all think we are superior; some of us actually believe in fairness. How long did the Welsh and Scottish referendums take?

So some people think that the Magna Carta is immaterial, but this is the biggest constitutional change since then, and some of us want a say in it.
I still have a copy of a comparison of the seven main parties' election manifestos - sad, I know.
Cameron promised this in the first year, not the first two months. A year means serious consideration in Parliament.

Durhamjen

" I'd be surprised if POGS was from the north. She does not sound like anybody I know from Hull or the North East ".

Your point is??????

All I can say to that is thank goodness I recently went for a weeks holiday to the Robin Hood holiday park just outside of Bridlington and on to York where we stopped in a smashing B&B.

Why thank goodness!

Because the people I met from the North East were not representative of yourself Durhamjen, they were friendly, curteous and had a good sense of humour. I don't think I met anybody who was bigoted or particularly narcissistic but they obviously are there.

AB I was not accusing you of racism
on this thread there has been snide remarks about 'the English' which if they were targeted at the Welsh or the Scots would have had people up in arms.
I hope I am not rude or telling lies both of which are abhorrent to me.
I was trying to be correct and polite in my responses and probably should not have included the last line in my post (which I repeat was not directed at you - sorry if you took offence) but my cage had been rattled by a few earlier posts.
in response to earlier posts the Scottish have not been included in the decision making re English laws as there would be some bills that related to England and Wales only, England Wales and Northern Ireland only, as Scotland so far as I know is not lumped in with these. Seems fair to me.

I agree with Ana. Completely ridiculous if the Speaker is the only one who has any say in the decision of what is an English law.
He's a conservative MP, not an all-wise oracle.

In any case, 56/59 Scottish MPs at present are SNP and the SNP abstains on English only votes, already, so what's the rush?
Even if all the non-english MPs vote against the government, they won't succeed in overruling it. That's simple arithmetic.
Surely this can go through the normal parliamentary channels so that it has a chance of being well thought out.

As the writer of the 'Hell, the English....' comment please explain why that's racist. I'm English btw. Is it possible to be racist about your own race? Hang on, is English a race? I thought it was a country.

I have never been accused of racism before and I'd love to know what you based this accusation on.

After making such an offensive accusation I feel you need to justify that opinion.

grannyonce, thank you, I really do not think that comment was racist, not as I define racism anyway, is it racist to say the people of x country are very excitable, the people of y country are very reserved, the people of z country are - whatever. This isn't about the people of England , well not for me it isn't , I don't care which government came up with this English votes for English people, it's wrong to ban an elected MP from taking part in any debate or vote in the UK Parliament , the speaker can ban an MP for a length of time if they break a rule but that's it. Every MP swears an oath of loyalty to the crown , they are all equal and all have equal rights , they are there because the people voted for them, silencing MP's who are not English MP's is silencing the voices of the people in three countries , this is not democracy , it's abuse of power . People died for the right to vote, now this right is being taken away from some. This is not against the people of England , it is about abuse of power . The only democratic way for English votes for English people is the same as it was for the Scots and the Welsh, a referendum , if a yes vote - which there would be - then an English assembly not in the chamber, run by assembly members voted for by the people of England and the Houses of Parliament remains a voice at all times for the people of the UK

How ridiculous it would be if welsh votes for welsh people was to be allowed in the chamber , 40 MP's voting and 610 banned from voting

Can you not understand why there is anger when a government can change the laws of parliment which has existed for hundreds of years and why one country of the UK is treated differently to the other three and without the consent of the people

VQ my opinion is justified both re your comment and others on this same thread.
I did not know you were English - nothing in your username said so
Of course English is a race, as is Scottish, Irish and Welsh - England is the country
I think you are confusing English with British - which is a catchall for the races that make up Britian, UK whatever you like to call it.
Do not see my post was that 'offensive' - I took exception to sweeping statements about my 'race' - that is 'racism.' I did not say YOU were 'racist'
Farnorth you write
In any case, 56/59 Scottish MPs at present are SNP and the SNP abstains on English only votes, already, so what's the rush? Even if all the non-english MPs vote against the government, they won't succeed in overruling it. That's simple arithmetic
maybe the Scottish MPs hitherto abstained by tacit agreement but there is no quarantee they will not side with the opposiition parties and defeat bills that have no bearing on their devolved countries (same applies to Wales)

AB
you say
why one country of the UK is treated differently to the other three and without the consent of the people

this is precisely how the English feel about the current situation.
yes of course we should have an English assembly but we are not getting that just a 'fudge' but it does address the 'Midlothian question' and is better than nothing.

am leaving this thread now as I have been accused of all sorts of dire things and was merely trying to redress the balance from the misinformation/ scaremongering portrayed in the OPs post.
have a lot going on in my personal life and have not the energy to keep on trying.

But grannyonce,if what you seem to fear was to happen it would be because English MP's , Scots , Welsh and Irish MP's would vote together. It is not possible for the MP's of Scotland, N Ireland and Wales to defeat any bill which had the full support of the English MP's , this is accusing MP's who are not Tory MP's of putting their loyalty to their parties before their duty to their constituencies

I have kept party politics out of my objections to this move by the government you have voiced what seems to be the true reason for the call for English votes for English people ,less opposition for this government to carry through their bills, Tory votes for Tory people seems the truth behind this , if I lived in the North of England I would be terrified

Grannyonce, just read your post re better than nothing, why not an English assembly , that isn't nothing , it works for three countries

Please show me where I referred to 'my race'.

Race classifies humans according to physical attributes such as skin colour.
As I have never mentioned any race I fail to see any of my comments are racist

Ethnicity tends to classify humans according to shared culture and/or ancestral heritage. So at the most you could accuse me of commenting negatively on an ethnic group. Does being a member of a part of a particular ethnic group mean you can't comment on it?

The Welsh are getting a bit excitable now.

There has been enough hot air generated by the objections to an English Parliament, and /or English votes by English MP's only on this thread to float a very heavy hot air balloon.

I am from Yorkshire btw but perhaps nobody would see me as a person from the North of England?

rosesarered, the Welsh never get excitable about anything English , what is there to get excited about? I admit holidaying in Haworth Country and visiting the Bronte Home was pleasurable , but that's it

Hot air only distributed by those objecting to English votes by English MP's ? mmmmm

Really AB? I must admit that I didn't find visiting Haworth pleasurable at all.

Really rosesarered, how interesting

not interesting per se, but simply the truth.A wet day, a steep hill in the centre of Howarth, The Black Bull heaving with Japanese tourists, and a China shop called Capo Di Bronte the most appealing thing there.The Bronte Parsonage and the churchyard there had the most depressing feeling I have ever come across.