Cameron Shaming the Country

It is less about the political views of posters and more about discussing a way forward. I see no reason why many people in the UK might not be concerned about the logistics of incorporating a lot of refugees, and recognise that some homeless Britons will sigh in despair. But it is not an either/or situation - taking in refugees does not mean that attempts to house British homeless people should stop. Clearly there are finite resources, but we are a rich country and we must play our part.

In the last analysis these people are just that, fellow people faced with the most appalling situation. No-one can blame them for trying to escape.

I do not think that concern for these people is the province of any one group of posters with a particular political bias - I am sure that everyone is concerned to see a solution to this misery. And people should feel free to express their concerns about a particular solution.

As I have said before, the only answer is a global one, with countries pulling together to help.

Ana I think that the use of the word "fascist" was in response to some posters' insistence on labelling all those supporting Corbyn as Marxists or Communists. It's a bit silly to get into these "tit for tat" exchanges but that's what tends to happen when people are provoked.

If someone called me a "fascist" I would be very annoyed and would express my annoyance (as I did about the "red grans" dig), but I certainly wouldn't feel "intimidated" and unable to continue contributing to the thread.

I hadn't noticed the "blue grans" being especially "timid" or "tentative" in putting forward their opinions or of being "easily terrorized" into silence." Terrorized?!

Neither had I, not sure how or why nigglynellie has come to that conclusion.

Of course it's silly to get into tit for tat exchanges, but posters at either end and the middle of the political spectrum are equally as guilty of that.

I suppose it's human nature to take umbrage at what is sometimes seen as an attack upon or criticism of one's own beliefs. We can't all speak with the voice of reason at all times...

True.

Although in defence of niggly's comments, there are certainly occasions when it's just not worth interrupting the flow of some threads when the posters are all of the same political persuasion and are having a great time having a go at the opposite side.

Sorry about the American spelling! That's what comes of using a kindle! Apologies for any offense caused!

I think it was me, in trying to explain how far wrong people calling those who support Corbyn, Marxists or Communists, were and that it was akin to saying those on here who are to the right of politics (some, seemingly, to the very far right) are fascists. I think you will find that no one or any group was called fascists, it was a comparison to show how extreme the original name callers were.

So, having tried to use Marxism or Communism to mark people out and, presumably, stop them from posting the latest trick is to insist this forum contains "Red Grans". Are we now to having McCarthyism* on Gransnet? Reds under the threads perhaps. For heavens sake just put your arguments forward and please stop this attempt to restrict other peoples posting.

(*Just for those who do not know the damage McCarthyism did McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism. )

For goodness sake! I used the term 'red grans' solely to refer to the group who are very clearly socialists. They happily vilify our elected government then get upset if they are challenged by any of us who do not share all of their views. This is not a 'trick' or an attempt to prevent their posting. It was a way of avoiding typing out a list of names. No conspiracy here!

Will the socialists on here desist from singing 'The Red Flag' at any future rallies lest we think of them as 'Red Grans'?

What a pity - quite a nice tune that!
Goes off humming.

There really is a big difference between socialists and communists - which "red" indicates Jane. I do realise how little some on here understand about the degrees of "left of centre" and perhaps you don't mean to be quite as insulting as you are being but, when comparing extremes - it would be like calling all those who are right of centre, "fascists". Really Jane how do you think those who consider themselves to be just right of centre (right wing liberals?) to the extremes of the BMP, would feel being called "fascists"? It may not be a conspiracy but some will find it very insulting.

You may now get very huffy but when you call people names and label them in a way that has ended peoples livelihoods and excluded them from some communities in the past you might expect people to feel a bit miffed themselves.

Call me what you like. I wouldn't be 'miffed' at all. I don't take that sort of thing as seriously as others seem to. Probably because I have a sense of proportion and other things to worry about.

Fascist Jane it will be then. After all you seem to like "dictating" to others what they think. Of course you will not mind being defined by others so that's all right then.

Gracesgran why do they sing 'The Red Flag' at the end of Labour rallies then?

Perhaps they should change it to 'The Sort of Pinkish Flag' or 'A Delicate Shade of Mauve Flag' ?

Jane10 when you call people names and label them in a way that has ended peoples livelihoods and excluded them from some communities in the past you might expect people to feel a bit miffed themselves
How did you exercise such power Jane? I am intrigued. Who ARE you?

Not sure that I'm a fascist, but compared to some I'm sure I appear to be. Anyway, I don't really care what others call me, 'sticks and stones' and all that. People can think and say what they like, I'm just not bothered, particularly on an impersonal chat forum!

Rosequartz, can I sing "Oh Tannenbaum" instead?

Next line translates as how green are your leaves.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/04/david-cameron-limit-uk-syrian-refugee-intake-discourage-dangerous-journeys

Can we please stop Cameron talking as if he represents us all?
He is not saying what he does in my name.

It's the problem when you have a leader voted in by a minority of the population Jen - however you calculate that. PR would make such a difference

rosequartz am thrilled to discover I've got such power. Will try to use it fairly but there's always a chance I'll get completely carried away with it all! FJ

Yes, djen as long as it is in the original German as we sang it in school (I don't know why, as they didn't do German lessons )

I was not suggesting you have any such power Jane. It was the choice of everyday people naming those they chose for this sort of singling out in the USA and the subsequent use of this "evidence" by the US government that deprived people of their basic civil liberties. You could be an instrument of the gathering of lies and gossip but not the power that carries out the non-democratic results. I imagine anyone one in that position would be standing there saying "it's wasn't me" and "after all she was a communist" with just prejudice to go on. Far from words never hurting people they can ruin lives.

That was how it read, though!

I think in the US they called them 'Pinko's' rather than red.

'Labour has long been identified with red, a political colour traditionally affiliated with socialism and the labour movement.'

that's true, the red rosette that candidates for MP used to wear, for knocking on doors and asking for votes, and the singing of 'The Red Flag' etc. Do they still sing that at meetings?I think Blair may have got rid of that somehow.