Attacks in Paris

<ssh, have they gone?>

Apologies for that frivolity on what was a very interesting, serious discussion until - well, it wasn't.

Yes. And apologies from me too.

Was the wrong place for that. I'll be off.

Is it safe to come in?

I heard on the news earlier that the death toll is still 129, not 132 as reported yesterday and almost half of those who were critical are no longer.

I am impressed how quickly the investigation is going. I felt a bit for the brother of the two Abselam brothers who was arrested on Saturday, but released without charge today and was only told today that one of his brother was one of the dead attackers and the other was on the run. He opened his door to reporters and asked them to remember they were still his mother's sons. The family's lives will be ruined by the backlash.

She is known for making inflammatory speeches

Wilma As far as I could tell, she just stated facts - which were correct.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

yes Wilma I heard that too, there are always parents and other family in all these sort of things, terrorists and murderers etc and so many lives are wrecked as a consequence.

Rosequartz, who is ?( known for making inflammatory speeches)?
I feel I have missed something?

I think RQ meant that post for a different thread?

The quote from rose quartz about the triumph of evil if good men (and women) do nothing is one we should all remember.

I can only compare the terrorist group called Islamic State with the Nazi's. A disgusting ideologically drive desire to rule the world and no moral compass. In my teens I believed I was a pacifist. I was so much younger then, I'm older than that now (thank you Mr Dylan)

Let's hope that western leaders, the US and Mr Putin can somehow join forces with relevant middle eastern leaders and crush these people before they murder, rape and destroy more cities and lives. Yes, this will mean killing the Isis fighters and inevitably innocent lives may be lost.

Sorry, Alea I hadn't caught up with all the thread and was replying to a link that janea put on about an American politician who was replying to a Muslim woman who asked a question.
Now I can't remember the woman's name.

here's the link again
qpolitical.com/someone-said-muslims-bad-woman-delivers-amazing-response/

And then wilma replied that the panellist was known for making inflammatory speeches.

Right, thank you! I had skimmed through the thread (not actually reading the link - oops- ), thank you for clearing that up!

rosequartz I suggest you Google her and find out more about about her. She reeled off a lot of facts and figures that I would question.

For example, in Germany the vast majority of voters supported the Nazi Party, not the minority. It's true that there were still many Germans who were skeptical of Hitler when he became chancellor in 1933, but by 1938 that had all changed. The depression of 1929 created poverty and high unemployment in Germany and people lost confidence in the democratic system, so they turned towards the extremist political parties such as the Communists and Nazis. After coming to power in 1933, his party rebuilt the economy and unemployment plummeted, plus the restrictions of the hated Versailles Treaty were removed. The Nazi Party gave national unity back to the German people across every sector of society. Even long after the end of the Second World War, opinion surveys show that many German people still considered all these things to be positive achievements of Hitler. It was the minority who disapproved of Hitler and the Nazi Party, not the majority.

I can't remember what else she mentioned, but as far as I am concerned Brigitte Gabriel is one of the the most anti-Islamic and right wing public figures I have come across.

Wilma I think what Brigitte Gabriel meant was that ordinary Germans did not support Hitler's aims of world domination and extermination of the Jews.

Which other parts of her answer did you disagree with?

Her wikipedia entry says she is an anti-Islamic extremism activist.

That is rather different from anti-Islamic, isn't it?

As for right wing - as long as it's not extreme, what's so bad about that?

If she was left wing would that make her views on Islam more acceptable somehow...?

janeainsworth I know what her Wikipedia page says and she probably maintains it. She's far more than an anti-Islamic extremism activist, she's anti-Islam full stop.

And not only are you making an assumption about what she meant about ordinary Germans, those Germans did know what was going on and supported Hitler to the bitter end. Research first published in 1995 now shows the only thing ordinary Germans may not have known about is the use of 'industrial scale' gas chambers because no media reports were allowed about this 'final solution'. Evidence gathered by Robert Gellately an Oxford University historian shows from 1933 onwards shows everything else was reported in the media. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels considered the 'Hitler Myth' to be his greatest achievement.

Ana I should have called her extreme right wing or ultra conservative, although yes, I do have a problem with right wingers because I'm a left winger.

janeainsworth I know what her Wikipedia page says and she probably maintains it. She's far more than an anti-Islamic extremism activist, she's anti-Islam full stop.

And not only are you making an assumption about what she meant about ordinary Germans, those Germans did know what was going on and supported Hitler to the bitter end. Research first published in 1995 now shows the only thing ordinary Germans may not have known about is the use of 'industrial scale' gas chambers because no media reports were allowed about this 'final solution'. Evidence gathered by Robert Gellately an Oxford University historian shows from 1933 onwards shows everything else was reported in the media. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels considered the 'Hitler Myth' to be his greatest achievement.

Ana I should have called her extreme right wing or ultra conservative, although yes, I do have a problem with right wingers because I'm a left winger.

Sorry, I don't know why my post was duplicated.

Yes, Hitler was supported by many Germans because of the difficulties they had following ww1 (to be brief). I'm not as sure as you are Wilma that everyone was in full support of his actions though. Many people were brave enough to stand up against him. They ended up in concentration camps didn't they - that is trade union members, activists seeking to persuade others to oppose Hitler and his merry henchmen.

Haven't read the thread but my post concerns the Paris attacks. I've just seen this report that Turkish officials apparently warned France twice about one of the gunmen involved, in December last year and June this year.

United is the key
United in defeating terrorism
United in helping those fleeing from the hell that is IS
United in our culture and values
United in rejecting the culture and values of ideologies represented by IS

We must be a mirror and hold ourselves up to reflect back good for all that is bad.

I am64 my understanding is when Hitler came to power many workers were joining the Communist Party which worried employers, so businesses gave financial support to the Nazis. By 1938 the Nazis had the support of over 90% of the electorate and many Communists were imprisoned for crimes against the state. Concentration camps had been around since about 1934 and Communists were one of the groups who were imprisoned there.

[I think the thread has gone too far off topic, so I won't be replying about this subject or Brigitte Gabriel. ]

thatbags I wonder if the French will acknowledge that report?

whitewave that's very good. Did you write it or is it a quote?

Wilma in the context of Brigitte Gabriel's answer, I think my interpretation of what she said about ordinary Germans was not an unreasonable one.