Everything to do with the attacks

I would absolutely defend anyone's right to remain a pacifist, but there have been occasions in history and at present, when I believe that stance would have left mankind in a precarious, damaged and ultimately far worse position. Sadly military action is called upon, on some occasions, for the greater good. Diplomacy and negotiation would always be preferable, but not always possible.

Seems to me to be a case of everyone thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong. A bit like this forum with the horrible replies to anyone who has another point of view. Why even bring God into it? If there is a god, which I sincerely doubt then atrocities done in his name mean nothing ,it's just a shield for them to hide behind. We only know what the governments and press want us to know,no more and no less.

Elegran, when you ask sensible questions I will always reply

I was in Tesco this morning when they intimated that there would be a two minute silence at 11 am for the victims of the Paris attacks. I have close ties with Paris so feel strongly about this terrible deed but what about the people of Beirut , 50 of them , who also dies last week ? How can we leave them out of our thoughts as well ?

this is hopeful. Time to join forces with Russia

soon, you and I do not worship the same God

I was going to say that we are.
But I would urge you to take into account, the whole of the Bible, not merely the bits that suit your own particular human narrative.

soon, I have no wish to follow every law in the OT, now a widow and past the menopause the law on periods no longer applies to me but when it did I assure you I did not ask my husband to wash himself and his clothes if he touched the bed I was sleeping in, your husband may be happy to do so

Elegran You ask what we anti-war people would do so here is my plan which has come entirely out of my own head by applying common sense to the problem. First send warships, cruise liners (many laid up now for the winter) ferries to evacuate Syrians who want no part in this war. Accommodate them in Holiday Camps & Hotels which have closed for the winter. Those countries which do not want refugees/evacuees can foot the bill for the places that will accept them. Close the borders to Syria after any would be Jihadists have entered.

Then leave Assad and his followers and IS to fight it out between themselves without hostages/human shields to hide behind. Hopefully, with the West profiting from selling arms to both sides and the fanatics wish to die in pursuit of their cause it will not take long for them to extinguish each other. Meanwhile, the UN should facilitate the setting up of a, preferably secular, Syrian Government in Exile to plan the reconstruction of Syria and repatriation of all Syrians who want to return.

Now I realise that people will pick this 'plan' to pieces but I would submit that it meets what most people want. Anyone got a better idea?

Nobody will address the issue that the major powers have poured weapons into the Middle East and these weapons and other equipment, have, either accidentally or by design, fallen into the wrong hands. This is what happens when nations - usually rich, powerful nations - base a significant part of their economy on the production of the most vile weapons.

I think the countries/companies who are selling or giving weapons to these people should be named and shamed and measures taken to isolate them diplomatically, politically and economically. As there is suspicion that some of them may be our "allies", there seems to be a reluctance to do this.

Clutching at straws now ab.

The God, war stuff was not law stuff. It was what God did.
There are about 40 books in the Old Testament, not just the 5 law ones.

This thread is not for discussing this in detail, but just looking up the verses I posted would give you more of an idea if you dont know already.

She is jingl, sadly.

It's a plan Granny23. Not sure what Mr Butlins would make of it. But still.... Worth a try.

Actually my daughter said similar. But hers went like this. 'Get all the civilians out, then bomb the lot of them.'

I have given you a reply soon, I suggest you spend time reading the teachings and promises of Christ

No Jingle, just explaining to soon how easy it is for soon to post little snippets from the OT which supports her views yet criticise others for not doing the same

Oh I have to disagree with you there Granny23 although shamefully I do not have any solution to the problem at all.

Moving half of Syria into closed hotels and holiday camps in the UK or Europe as a whole would be a huge mistake for so many reasons. Not least;

Most of the refugees are single men. Or correction, men travelling alone.
How could you be sure you were only bringing peaceful people out?
What would happen in the spring when those hotels and holiday camps wanted to re-open?
Would anyone really want to go back?

Anniebach. Do you remember when Terry Waite went to Lebanon to try and get the release of John McCarthy and Brian Keenan. The heathens ( because that's what they are) chained him to a radiator for 4 years.
Go figure.

Good posts Elegran and Terry Bull.

I think the problem that arises from 'our personal ' perceptions of some posts is they seem to be making excuses for the behaviour of IS and yet we all will accept and understand that nobody in their right mind actually is 'literally' making excuses for IS.

An example would be to repeatedly say that IS has nothing to do with the Muslim faith and we should all be respectful of the fact most Muslims abhor IS. That is a truth, a fact ' but ' it is denying that IS is ' absolutely everything ' to do with the Muslim faith, a doctrine that believes in the caliphate and world domination of their medieval , barbaric Muslim belief. Yet some repeatedly make statements that give the impression that anybody who mentions the fact IS is a Muslim issue are being 'racist', xenophobic which in turn leads others to find them in return to be at best naieve or feeling they are continually in denial of what IS actually is.

Some posts are obviously making a point in an extreme way such as the fear of having to conform to Sharia law and wearing head scarves. That is then twisted by another to give the impression the initial poster was making a declaration this was going to happen , they didn't give that impression to others who understood it was a tongue in cheek comment but also had a potent comment behind it. Again there is the permanent 'defence' of the Muslim religion when the Muslim religion was not the point being raised.

There is I would hazard a guess not one poster who does not accept that the Muslim faith has many varying sects but surely we can all accept that when discussing IS we are discussing a jihadist, hard line, barbaric murdering sect.

Some posters are focused on IS and their comments are totally related to IS. The problem arises when others repeatedly elect to move/widen the debate/discussion from IS which in turn twists/deflects from the point the poster discussing IS is making and it causes heated discussion. Probably I am alone in that thought .

I know Petra, I was involved with the free John and Brian campaign

The three were finally released not killed - go figure

Your plan has attractions, G23, to let them fight it out for themselves, with non-combatants out of the way, then return them when everyone was annihilated and the country was empty and ready to resettle.

I can't imagine there would be much left to return to though, and there could be an influx of outsiders to usurp the place of those temporarily absent. And those in the holiday camps would have no structure for keeping order, and a whole lot of time on their hands, which could lead to trouble between the camp dwellers and their neighbours. They would need screening anyway, for those (few but deadly) seeded amongst them who favoured terrorism and suicide bombing, and would recruit others from the dispossessed.

Would that we could wind the clock back! but we can oinly go forward from where we are, not back.

....and a Mr hairy legs competition could take the place of Miss Bognor Regis 2015.

Is there any campaign that you were NOT involved in anniebach?

Like it gillybob!

I'm with Petra on this one. Sort them out quickly before all those young men coming into this country and other countries form their own army and cause mayhem. Do not let anyone come back who has been away fighting.