Should GB be a world power

I wish I could be so certain of the right thing to do.

I don't think anyone can be certain of the right thing to do because no-one can be certain of any outcome or what would have happened if a different decision had been taken.

So, would you feel ok if this escalated into a Third World War, even to the extent of our "standing alone" against IS? Has the world really not progressed at all since the 1940's. You sound as though it would be something to be proud of, and the rest can go to hell.

My posts were addressed to Margaretofnorthants btw.

out of synch on the thread but just to say I am under 65 and am the child of colonial Britain. My father was in the colonial service until the 1960's and I remember very well the life that we had as part of the 'ruling group' in East Africa. My brother was born in E Africa and is still in his 50s! So not all people from the colonies are that old and decrepit.

Re GB being a world power, we are influential but not as powerful as we once were. Not a bad thing.

We need to be influencing the financial support/ arms sales that keep Daesh going, be providing safe havens and safe air space for the ordinary people of these strife ridden countries to get to places of safety. That is the way to undermine terrorists. Bombing and killing only perpetuates the situation and increases the numbers angry people, ripe for persuasion by Daesh, on the ground.

Cameron wants us to be a bigger world power.

stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/follow-the-money-uk-government-review-of-defence-spending-reeks-of-war

None of this expansion is to do with Syria. If it is he expects the war to last a lot longer than most people want it to.

So, would you feel ok if this escalated into a Third World War, even to the extent of our "standing alone" against IS?

I don't see why it would, really, as we would not be 'standing alone' - the majority of countries are against them.

djen the government has been criticised for reducing defence spending.

Defence - even in your link the word is defence
Not war, or aggression.

Rosequartz, how many countries are involved in the bombing ?

I think my comments about rebuilding the infrastructure have been misunderstood. I am not suggesting our involvement would be to make the damage worse.

I was suggesting that after the conflict is over and the rebuilding of the infrastructure begins, as one of the leading coalition countries we would be well placed to pick up contracts - as we've done in all the other conflicts when we've been involved.

AnnieBach more than 60 countries are involved in some way now.

Yvette Cooper wrote to David Cameron at the end of last week asking for more information, so I hope it will be forthcoming. I am not against military intervention in Syria, but I would like fuller answers to the questions Jeremy Corbyn asked at PMQ. At the moment I think we're considering expanding our military action into Syria because our allies are asking us to and because it makes us look bad. I am not sure that's good enough reason.

Thank you Wilma, so about six are bombing, what are the fifty four doing ?

Yes, roseq, it was reducing defence spending. However, if you read the link, you will see that since the Autumn statement, they are increasing it to ridiculous amounts because of the war in Syria. Yet none of the planes, etc., will be ready until at least 2023.
Cameron says that the first line of government is to defend our country.
You do not defend it by sending planes to bomb Syria.

I can't do links but anybody genuinely 'interested' as to who the 60 odd countries are in the coalition and what their limitations/contributions are look at the HUFF POST site WHO WILL FIGHT ISIS. It is only one of a number of sites but easy to read.

This page from Wikipedia gives masses of detail about the countries fighting ISIL and the contribution each is making. I suspect some posters will be surprised at how long the fighting has been going on and how much is already happening. If you scroll down, you will come to a table which gives an easy to read summary.

Military Intervention Against ISIL

Thank you Wilma, it certainly makes it clearer why so many are fleeing Syria . Also shows bombing doesn't work.

I don't know if this should go on this thread, or if I should start a new one, but thought it (if true) illustrates the difficulties of getting any number of countries to work together over anything.
I have a Russian DIL, yesterday I was at their house for lunch and to attend the Advent service at the Church in whose choir #2 son sings. She told me that the Russian plane which was shot down was in Turkish airspace for only 10 seconds, that no warning was given, but that the real reason the plane was shot down was because the Turkish foreign minister had business interests in the Syrian oil industry. The Russian bombing has disrupted this business to such a degree that it had virtually collapsed. So the Russian plane was shot down in retaliation. IF this is true, bearing in mind it's Russian media reporting it, is there ANY hope that the world can find a collective solution to the Syrian problem?
And in response to someone who asked had we learned nothing since the 1940s well no I don't think we have. It takes longer than that to mutate the human race I fear, so we are still stuck with resorting to violence if we don't get what we think we are "owed" or have "rights" to.

Margaret

One problem is Russia and Turkey are on opposite sides in the conflict. Another problem is Russia's blatant and constant infringement of other countries airspace for which it has been reprimanded by NATO.

BBC News - What we know

Downing of Russian jet

44 killed as Russian planes bomb Turkish bakery

Putin is still bombing opponents of Assad rather than ISIL.

Thanks for the link WilmaKnickersfit, you don't know who or what to believe do you. They all need a good smack!!

I thought there was a recording of the warning given to the Russian jet - in English.

It was a news item last week unless I'm mistaken.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34929242

Why on earth speak in English , did they think it was a British or American plane

I think English is the language of airport flight control and exchanges between aircraft. They may not have had a speaker of Russian to hand, either, but they are likely to speak English.

Economically -yes but no chance
Militarily - no far too ex pensive

Margaret

There is also the question re the 'trajectory' of the downed Russian fighter . Everything I have read, viewed factually points to the Russian fighter crossing over Turkish airspace heading toward anti-Assad rebel held territory, toward the Turkmen rebels. Had it been heading toward IS held territory maybe it might have been different, Turkey viewed it as an attack on it's own. Turkey was heard to give a warning .

I have to say Russia is known to 'play games ' over our air space and other countries so Russia is known to push it's luck often. The closest I will ever get to understanding the Russian mentality is by watching Russia Today and as expected it's reporting does not cover some aspects of the issue as say UK news.

I do however take the point your DIL has raised and I have said Turkey has two heads and needs to be reigned in. I don't have a good feeling about the EU rushing through Turkey becoming a member of the EU over the week-end because I don't trust the Turkish government, a personal comment obviously.

I could be totally wrong but I have to stick with my view in my first paragraph however.

I made no comment to DIL as I am afraid I have not read all the stuff published in the press. I have to say I did wonder if anyone would be so mad as to do it, but it just shows you don't know who to believe or trust, and if we on GN feel like that how do those in power feel? They may know more but doubt that makes it any clearer. I have a feeling the vote will be for bomb strikes tomorrow, and don't think it will solve anything. At some point they have to talk to each other, but how they are going to achieve that is beyond me. Maybe we should support Assad until ISIL is .......I am reluctant to say beaten, .......and then sort Assad out afterwards. The 14-18 war was supposed to be the one to end all wars. 20 years later we were at war again, and it has gone on in some part of the world ever since....Korea, Vietnam.....no sooner does it die down than it breaks out somewhere else. I just hope they get their targets right, sometimes I despair of the human race altogether.