Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

I see, so Welsh racism is excused, but not the other way round...

Anniebach "Little Englander" is offensive to many of us. On one hand you make absolutely no comment about some of the negatives that have been happening to women in Europe at the hands of Arab men and just come back with spurious comments along the lines, don't English men ever inflict violence. No one here has implied that they think all Muslim behaves badly, yet you lump all English together with your nasty racist "Little Englander" comment based on a couple of bad experiences, thus insulting all English.

I should have said sime English, I apologise for that but not for anything else,

Not a couple of bad experiences , many racist insults,

I expect you have a lot of experience of people being less than polite to you Anniebach.

Good grief Jane, hasn't everyone had less than polite comments made to them, think we can say with the eceotion of the queen

So there we have it, a poster just says how racist comments about their mother tongue can hurt and everyone has defended the racists . I didn't expect everyone to defend but did expect the majority, thank you

Why should the Queen be the exception? Do you really think that insults haven't been hurled at most members of the royal family by anti-royalists in their time? However, they don't bang on about it like some.

You just can't see that you're being racist yourself, can you Annie?

From now on anything Anniebach has to say will be ignored by me, no point trying to have a balanced discussion with such a person, thank goodness she is a minority, these racist slurs makes my blood go cold, at least if they come out with it you can react accordingly, for me not to react, not worth it.

Please stop. This makes very unpleasant reading.

It seems strange to pick on one (age group & gender) of one group of our society who do not speak English well. The data taken from the census is based on a self assessed answer to the question: Do you speak English:well, not very well, not at all and this is what has been the basis for this recent storm in a teacup.

It is true that the data from the census shows that of all immigrant groups older women from Pakistan and Bangladesh are most likely to answer the questions 'not very well/not at all'. But they will not be the only ones!

It is better if , when moving to a new country, that newcomers make every effort to learn the language and local customs whilst maintaining their home language and culture. At one point in UK, as other posters have said, there was funding and opportunity for classes and community drop-in groups to support newcomers, women in particular, to learn English.

Sadly sometimes host communities have not been welcoming and this can make a newcomer reluctant to go out and about without ofthe safety being accompanied/ or in a crowd. Cultural differences can take time to break down and in some cases custom is used to prevent women from gaining skills that may help her live a fuller life. That is not acceptable.

Why is it unpleasant? A poster is showing us her true colours, nothing unpleasant, just the truth.

If you can't see why, then I'm sad for you.

The fact that Anniebach is from a minority group is more likely that she has been subjected to racism! If someone has suffered personal racist abuse it cuts to the quick and is not to be dismissed lightly or minimised.

I know people use racism now to refer to any abuse based on racial comments but originally it was about a power relationship with only the person /group with 'power' and in the majority who were being racially abusive that were considered the racists. Retaliation as a result of racism was not.

A minority group?

Anniebqch is not being "racist" - but admittedly she does go on a bit about the way the Welsh language has been treated in the past.

AB - you speak perfect English. How did you - personally, not Welsh speakers in general - come to be abused because of your language?

And there is a balancing "abuse by language" - I have heard English visitors tell how they were ignored in shops in Wales, while the shopkeeper had long chats in Welsh to other customers, and others how they were clearly being talked about in a language they couldn't understand. I don't know how widespread this was, but it certainly wasn't nice.

Minority group? All the Welsh? are you kidding? so are the Scots a minority group??
I have experienced hostile looks and remarks in Wales ( and also met some nice people there)but I don't tar all the Welsh with the same brush.
It's interesting isn't it, that those of a very left wing bent are all condemning this proposal of money to help Muslim women speak English.It speaks volumes I think.
All because a Conservative government announced it: there is simply no other way to look at it Imo.

Which is the point I made earlier, Elegran - but apparently that's perfectly OK...

I'm so pleased that some of you have picked up on the 'minority' label.
I thought that I had missed something with Annibachs heritage.
I don't feel so stupid now.

I think those stories are apocryphal Elegran.
I have been living in very Welsh-speaking N Wales for nearly 3 years and I have never encountered this, not once, not ever. Neither have I encountered any personal hostility from people who might have assumed I was not Welsh.
Sometimes people will continue a conversation in Cymraeg, of course, if they are in mid flow. What are they supposed to do - guess you don't understand and instantly switch to English so that can listen in to their conversation? (It's their first language for goodness sake. ) Or are they somehow able to guess by looking at you that you don't speak Cymraeg and therefore cannot possibly understand the awful things they are saying about you?
Strangely, it is hard to tell who speaks Cymraeg and who does not just by looking at them, or even by hearing them speak English. I know several people who are not from the UK e.g German, Dutch etc, who are fluent Welsh speakers.
Often people do quickly switch out of politeness e.g. 3 men in a steam room in a hotel spa, talking about rugby, instantly changing to English when I said "hi" as I entered. Positively courteous.

Have you ever encountered any 'racist' insults made by the English to Welsh-speakers, Jess, as alleged by ab?

Ana I believe that there are fewer Welsh and Scots in the UK than English. That would make them a minority in the UK. You seem to find it hard to accept that ab has been subjected to racist abuse. I don't know her but if she says she has why think otherwise? I promise you, you know when it happens!!

making this thread all about Wales is just a distraction from the ridiculous view that somehow Cameron is making an 'attack' on Muslim women, when actually encouraging and saying that Muslim women should be able to speak some English is a very sensible view.

Oh roses if only DC was that caring and supportive chap you think he is!

So, the left wing view is that money for Muslim women to have English lessons is actually......... What exactly?Do tell?