Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

Getting the mosques to promote a campaign for the wives is a good suggestion Nellie although not sure if they would agree to it.It could be at least tried though, write to Number 10.

Cameron is not 'attacking Mulims in a sly way' that is just laughable.

Any money for education of foreign Muslim non English speaking women is a good thing, it is finding the best way of access that could be difficult.

Your libdem man criticised Cameron rose

MY LibDem man?
I have no problem in endorsing ideas from any political party, if I think it a good one.

Oh sorry I thought you were libdem. I stand corrected.

I have always voted LibDem in the past, things have changed badly for them now though which is worrying.Which one is MY LibDem man? Farron? It wouldn't matter to me what any LibDem or Labour frontman said about this idea ( they are opposing, so a case of ' well 'e would wouldn't 'e'? )

"It's crucial Muslim women learn English" Yasmin Allibah Brown. She is of the opinion that SOME Muslim men are hell bent on eradicating women's rights. I think I would rather listen to her opinion on this matter, she is an educated and informed Muslim women who believes to assimilate into a society the incomer must be prepared to take on the customs of that country, she is very anti veil and doesn't even like the headscarf being worn by school girls. I strongly agree with her assertion that there are Muslim women who are at the mercy of their menfolk and as such have little chance of being allowed to integrate.

Given the recent events in Cologne and other European cities there is a disconnect between a section of Muslim men and western society and the aspirations of women who they have a low opinion of. I don't think our politicians of any persuasion have effective solution to ingrained cultural behaviour and deep rooted misogyny.

Yes the new leader Tim Farron

Some people systematically 'rubbish' any idea/ policy from a political party that they themselves are opposed to.

Good post TerriBull yes, it's a real problem.

Yes, good post Terribull.

Yasmin is the only one who tells it like it is. It was a very good piece in the DM.

TBH I can't help thinking that this is just another thread to "bash Cameron" that's OK, it's just interesting to note that there are far more threads having a go at the right rather than the left, although there was a noticeable deathly silence from those same voices on the recent mass female assaults in Cologne on the thread on GN. Disenfranchised Muslim women are destined to live wretched lives, irrespective of whether money is stumped up for English lessons or not. Their cross to bear is more about their male relatives and how they control them then their lack of English.

There was a discussion on Womens Hour on Radio this morning, didnt hear all of it, but a speaker was bleating on about the rights of muslim women to work, be educated, etc., and that this was more important to integration than being forced to learn English.....duh.....it is rather difficult to access education or employment ( other than exploitative) if you dont speak English. Stupid woman. I hate to say this, but in principal I agree that all people wishing/choosing to live in UK should be obliged to learn English, for their own advantage, for the benefit of their family, and for the benefits of society as a whole.

I very much doubt it would come to deportation if they were unable to speak English. I do think it is immensely important for them to learn to speak our languaged as it can only be of help to them and us to encourage intergration. Women who are unable to speak our language are totally dependant on others and at a great disadvantage. If they cannot understand the news and read the papers, how do they know what is going on? Their only information is what they are told. All women should be independant and well informed enough to make up their own minds. Women are usually more natural communicators and can help so much in broadening childrens' minds. We go to Greece frequently as we have a house there and whilst not in any way fluent we are able to get by and communicate. I do not expect the Greeks to speak English ( although of course a lot do!).

I read the whole speech and it made sense to me. It certainly wasn't 'Muslim bashing'.

I don't understand why some posters likening learning English in Britain to us learning another language, it is not the same. The people choosing to live here will be living alongside people who also speak English. If I decide to learn another language there won't be people around me speaking it. DS got D for French at GCSE but a couple of months after moving to Lausanne he was fluent.

If people choose to live in the Netherlands no one pays for Dutch classes for them and no one panders to their lack of Dutch. They have to pay for their own lessons, they do and integration is better than here. More is expected of them so they do what is expected.

With all the calls on our money it seems to me we could learn a lot from the Dutch. £20 million could be spent in so many other deserving ways. Maybe if hospitals and local authorities stopping publishing in several languages there would be more incentive to integrate?

Does anyone have any figures on the number of other immigrants who fail to learn English? It would be interesting to know if there is a difference and why that might be.

TerriBull. Have to agree. I noticed that they were noticeable by their absence on that thread.

I think there can be too much "regard for other cultural norms" (paraphrased from another post). It is not insensitive to try and help people, who appear to have no help currently and so can be isolated from the dominant culture they live in, to learn the local language.

OK, it may not work, but it also may. We could just give it a chance before damning it.

Helping people to learn to speak English is for the good, bringing radicalisation into to it was uncalled for and make the women seem a threat , why not just say it is provided to help women

You cannot fully 'live' or integrate into any country unless you speak the language. You cannot discuss your health with a doctor, talk to your child's teacher, or ask for help. You become isolated and only mix with those who speak your tongue.

A bit like some of the Brits in Spain

How about some regard for our cultural norms, anyway? Like speaking English in Britain. Is it so outrageous to want that? Carry on speaking whatever other language you speak too but learning to communicate in the main language of the country you live in is not too much to ask of anyone. And, since some Muslim women don't seem to have any help at the moment, offer them some help. What's not to like?

Another thing that Cameron said that needed saying (and needs saying again and again) is that in Britain women and girls are free to live as they choose. I don't think it's wrong to point this out to people from cultures where that isn't the case. One can agree with the man on this without being an out and out Tory.

I taught some Bangladeshi children in Oxford, helping them with English and Maths so that they could do well at school. Their mother, via the father or uncle, would ask me to go along to parent-teacher meetings with the mother (the men, who spoke English, didn't go). I used to wish the mother would come to the lessons I gave too. Admittedly, she did have other young children to look after, and I wasn't there long enough to see if she was able or allowed to have lessons in later years with the younger children.

But she'd been in Britain for about nine years already at that stage.

Similarly, the Ugandan-Asian mother of a friend I knew at uni had been in England for twenty-five years but still didn't have the confidence (i.e. the language) to answer the phone in her own home. That is what Cmaeron's proposal is trying to address. What is wrong with that?

Can someone point me to what Cameron said about radicalisation and that being Muslim women's fault, please? I haven't seen any actual quotes of that kind of thing.

Thatbags If that was my remark about "others cultural norms" you were referring to, what I meant was that if you really want to change people's attitudes and to succeed, you need to "engage with them with regard to their current cultural norms." However wrong you think those norms.

By this I did not mean that we accept those norms alien to our society but by discussion education and negotiation. Which is why I thought get the community leaders engaged with your reasoning and work at change
by "winning hearts and minds." Not by using napalm potential intimidation.

I make no apologies for the link. I assume most of us are old enough to know what I mean.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winning_hearts_and_minds