Tax Havens

So vote in the EU what you think is right for the country, not what the PM says.

Do you have evidence that David Cameron lies daphnedill?

For what it is worth, it wouldnt surprise me, but I think I am right in saying that on the internet, you have to be right to be able to say that.

Ab, H must be one of the hardest people to try and love.

I am trying hard to see the difference between legally avoiding tax, and legally avoiding tax offshore.

From what I can see, this whole subject is not a party issue at all but a national one.
I would not like to be the way of Norway but it does have its advantages.

Having read durhamjens post better of 01.08am, the problem really is an international one. Of all parties.

As just a few seem to think Benns will is of interest . I think I would have done the same as Caroline Benn. A couple could have a very happy marriage yet often when one partner dies a second marriage follows , the second husband/wife is then entitled to inherit

My mother in law married a widower , his first wife had worked for most of their married life in nursing. They had two daughters and three grandchildren. My mother in law and her second husband made wills leaving the house - the house he and his first wife had bought - to each other. My mother in law has made a new will, she chose to leave the house to her daughter and me , not from affection but as the widow of her son. The daughters from the first marriage are not mentioned. I demanded she change her will and leave me out of it, if she refused I would give my half to the two daughters . The first wife adored her daughters and I am angry they will not benefit from the hard work of their parents. She is now to leave all to her daughter and sons younger daughter and grandchildren of her sons elder daughter. I have not spoken to her for over seven years , what she is doing is so wrong.

No more to say on the wills of the Benns, just I would do the same as Caroline.

Sorry for going off topic

No, ab, that's just the point. As I said in a previous post, I have no trouble at all with Tony Benns tax avoidance arrangements, in fact I can perfectly well see that it would be sensible to carefully plan to preserve and protect family wealth.. My problem is that while nobody on the left seems at all put out by it, dj actually approves!! but when it's Ian Cameron basically doing the same thing there are howls of rage why?!! Hilary Benn and his siblings benefited by their parents prudence, as did David Cameron and his. Why is it ok for the Benns but not the Cameron's bearing in mind neither parents broke the law?!
Why was newsnight rubbish because Rachel Johnson was on it? Is there some reason that she should be banned. Surely not prejudice dj?! Heaven forbid!!!!

obieone, I decided many years ago to rewrite this request to love the sinner and I follow - try to understand the sinner in place of love the sinner

There is a very interesting article by Suzanne Moore in the Guardian.
She says that not paying taxes is a form of theft, even if it is legal. "
The acceptance of a caste system whereby the likes of David Cameron and George Osborne rule us and we are not allowed to question the finances of this elite has to stop. We all pay taxes to train doctors and maintain the roads they are driven on. The idea that this elite does not use the services that are provided is simply not true."

Another interesting fact in her article, to do with 2010, is that just before the election, Jeremy Hunt, then culture secretary, reduced his tax bill by £100,000 through a deal that meant he transferred his companies' office buildings.
Of course, I can now see the people who will say why shouldn't he?

Well, he shouldn't have done because he was doing it to pay less tax, pay for fewer doctors, pay for fewer potholes to be filled in.

What is tax?
I think it's a mark of a civilised society, a society where everyone pays their fair share depending on the money they earn, not on accountants and lawyers being able to earn more than the average person earns in a year on just one transaction to enable Cameron's dad to dodge paying taxes in the country his son professes to love.

I noticed in today's news that Mossack Fonseca are trying to close offices down. A bit stupid, really.
Fortunately the police noticed and raided the office in San Salvador.

www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/09/panama-papers-police-raid-mossack-fonsecas-office-in-el-salvador

So David Cameron is suddenly responsible for what his father did or didn't do?! How on earth do you work that out dj? I'd be really interested to know. Of course avoiding tax is theft from receiving/paying in cash for casual work, to careful tax planning through a tip top accountant. It's not the amount that's the problem but the intent. Maybe some of us have done the former? ( or even the latter!!!) God forbid of course!!

Rachel Johnson spent a lot of time saying she could not comment on things because of her brother. That's why it was rubbish. No point in having someone on who cannot respond to many questions.

What Tony Benn did was what anyone in this country can do who owns a house worth more than £650,000. We know exactly what he did because it was in the open and in this country. Unless, of course, in your prejudice against him, you know differently, niggly.

We do not know how much Cameron's dad left because some of it is still in secretive jurisdictions and therefore not subject to UK law. Unless again, in your prejudice, you know differently, niggly. Cameron is certainly not telling us.

If any Labour MPs or backers are caught out in this, I will be just as vociferous in my condemnation. Haven't heard of any yet, though. I am sure if there are any, you will find them though, niggly.

www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/07/how-mossack-fonseca-offshore-helped-fight-modigliani-painting-stolen-nazis-panama-papers

Here's a good story. Mention of Hitler on this thread is not far-fetched.

It's still cheating though, and you know it!!!

obieone, The onus is on David Cameron to sue me and prove that he's never lied, but somehow I don't think he will.

Do you mean that you believe you are free to say what you like until someone sues you, Durhamjen? No need to think first about whether it might mean that you are telling lies jumping to conclusions that may not be true?

If that is so, why would anyone pay any attention at all to any of your allegations about anything?

Correction - Daphnedll, not durhamjen - Moral - check your facts carefully before posting. That applies to others posting as well as to me!

niggly is prejudiced? Now I've heard it all! Just give up. There will only ever be disagreement and continued sniping as long as its 'All Tories automatically bad and all Socialists automatically good' most people are somewhere in between but the continued Tory bashing just risks pushing others into the Tory camp and you wouldn't want that would you?

niggly, Receiving cash in hand for a job and not declaring it for income tax is tax EVASION, which is illegal.

I think one of the biggest issues with seeing the great and good getting away with not paying their fair share in tax is that it sends out the wrong moral messages. When the Prime Minister and those at the top of the pile are seen as getting away with avoiding tax, people at the bottom, who can't afford a lawyer in Panama, will follow them in their own way.

That's why I think Cameron is in the wrong. He lectures us all about austerity and 'doing the right thing' and claims he finds tax avoidance abhorrent, but can't bring himself to admit that what his father was doing was immoral according to his OWN standards. The facts had to be dragged out of him and nobody knows even now how much he stands to inherit when his mother dies or whether there's more money stashed away. Cameron himself is the one who tries to occupy the moral high ground and has been found wanting.

Nevertheless, I think he is probably a small player in this whole affair and I'm interested to know why others are being ignored.

Elegran, No, I don't think I can say anything about a person unless they sue me, but Cameron has lied on a number of issues.

Not going to be sidetracked from the main op. If it bothers you that much, prove that he's never lied.

Jane10, If you trawl around the internet, you'll find that some of Cameron's biggest critics are coming from his own backbenches, UKIP and other right wing (even fascist) groups. This really isn't as simple Conservative vs Labour bashing.

daphnedll no, I am sure you would not say anything that was not as accurate as you could make it. It was Dj who claimed that David Cameron's father "made all his money from tax avoidance" which is an exaggeration - he must have made money to not pay tax on . There is not yet a tax in existence which takes 100% of anyone's whole income - though I daresay the treasury would love to introduce one.

Why on earth should David Cameron reveal how much he will inherit when his mother dies?!! Surely this is a private matter or does this revelation apply to everyone in the country?! Why on earth would we be interested in something that is none of our business? Except of course to check up on any tax avoidance!!

You are not the only one who needs to read a bit more carefully, Elegran.

"If any Labour MPs or backers are caught out in this, I will be just as vociferous in my condemnation. Haven't heard of any yet, though. I am sure if there are any, you will find them though, niggly."

This is what I said, Jane10. How does that imply all socialists good, all Tories bad?
Your prejudice is showing.
I hope that others will see how bad the Tories are and join the socialists.

All Cameron has to do is give an open and honest statement to parliament on Monday, as Corbyn has asked.
I am sure he is working on it now with his spin doctors.

Is it cheating, niggly? I presume you mean what Tony Benn did with his property.

In that case, Ian Cameron did just the same. So presumably you think he is a cheat as well?

niggly,

Of course Cameron doesn't HAVE to reveal how much he will inherit when his mothers dies. However, it will be a matter of public record, unless the money is offshore, which is what happened when his father died. You can search wills over a certain amount (can't remember how much) in the London Gazette. Yes, this applies to everybody in the country.

Jane, no use playing the Tory bashing card . This is not about politics, it's the fact the PM who runs this country was not honest . He should have said - yes I had shares and sold them in 2010. He chose not to . He had the shares when he was a MP and didn't have to disclose the fact. Once becoming PM he would have to have disclosed the fact, so he chose to get rid of them just before the possibility he would become PM , if all so innocent and honest why the secrecy , why the need to sell them st that time . The fact he is a Tory has nothing to do with this, it is to do with the man . I assure you if this was a labour PM I would say the same and would expect a resignation.

People do not invest in off shore accounts for any other reason than to avoid paying the tax in the country they live in . Cameron said Jimmy Carr trying to pay less tax was immoral. If Cameron had not been facing the election one is left with the question - when and where would he have sold them .

So not political, just a PM who cannot be trusted . How can he say he will never in the future benefit from off shore accounts, did his father leave his wife out of his will, will she leave her son out of her will. He is not responsible for his fathers choice of making money but he will be responsible for accepting monies made by his father .