European Union in or out

Day6, have you read the thread that whitewave started on the EU, long before we knew the date? Perhaps if you did, you might appreciate her knowledge a bit more.

DJ, I have no doubt that whitewave is well-informed, but I don't think many of us have the time or inclination to read every single piece in relation to a subject, especially if it's an old thread, long gone from the first page.

Who said I didn't appreciate her knowledge? You are making assumptions. I merely remarked on the number of links the remain camp tend to post to counter anything by anyone thinking differently. It was the strategy I queried.

ana I do so not sneer at people. I am absolutely happy to debate any point.
day6 yes it was a huge spectrum to use your point. But it was meant simply to prove a point relating to those people who looked at a subject in depth. I would hope you understood my point. Clearly not?

A perfect example of someone 'sneering' " Some people choose to live their life in ignorance, others tackle a subject with vigour"

How is that sneering, Petra?
It's just a comment. Many people do live in ignorance, particularly to do with politics.
Your comment adds nothing to the thread, so why did you make it?

whitewave, I thought I'd made it clear that I didn't include you in the same category as those who sneer at others' points of view. But if not, I meant to.

I haven't seen that Day6 is rude at all. In fact, as someone undecided (presumably an inbetweener) but leaning towards voting to stay in, I find Day6's* posts most interesting and informative.
As I do whitewave's interesting posts.

I would be interested in Jeremy Corbyn's views on why he has taken a U turn on the EU - always anti but now for staying in.

It's not just Boris, who seems to crop up with regularity on threads whose views we wish to hear - what about people like Kate Hoey, Frank Field, both well-respected Labour politicians? What about their views?

When I chatted to a couple of friends yesterday I reiterated my view that we need to ask the younger people with whom we have contact what their views and wishes are. It's their future.

^Some people choose to live their life in ignorance, others tackle a subject with vigour"
True, whitewave but there is a vast swathe of people in between those two extremes who are interested but do not tackle the subject with vigour. The majority, in all probability. They want the facts presented in a concise and impartial manner to enable them to make up their minds.
They have lives to lead and haven't the time or the inclination to spend hours on making a decision.

Sorry ana

Wow petra I am sure I can sneer with the best of them, but that was so not. Try not to start an argument it doesn't help you know.

Just finished my EU course. It was run by University of Barcelona, and it was interesting to look at a different perspective. The most interesting thing was the way Germany is perceived throughout the EU especially on the continent, and the hope that the UK remains as a balance.

I have clearly expressed myself very badly for which I apologise. Let me start again. Some people prefer to remain in ignorance with regard to politics others look at the subject in depth. I was trying to take a neutral position in answer to day6 criticism of posters who have all the answers to hand, as apposed to those who go by their gut instinct. I am more than happy to debate with anybody, and certainly do not sit in judgement.

As another poster says, there are huge swathes of people in between. The vast majority I would say.

We all have only one vote of equal worth.

I think you are right o

Nobody has all the answers to hand so everybody will be using their gut feeling about the referendum issues to a greater or lesser extent. Both sides have arguments that are based on knowledge, on current facts, on experience, and so on, but there is a huge amount of uncertainty in the whole issue.

There is nothing wrong with voting on gut feeling. Everyone will be doing that to some extent. Some people are just more aware, and perhaps less ashamed (since there's nothing to be ashamed about, though some people seem to think there is) of doing so.

There is nothing wrong with feeling one side has better arguments than the other, either way.

But nobody, repeat nobody, knows all the answers. Speculation is rife. Uncertainty is the only thing we can be sure of. So just go and vote with your guts when the day comes and take ot from there, which we'll all have to do anyway, whatever the ourcome. No point worrying about it now.

Crossed posts, obi. Yours is beautifully succinct, and spot on.

We all have only one vote of equal worth.
Absolutely.
And whatever the outcome we will never know what the alternative future would have been like.

Sliding Doors!

I think the fact that we all have only one vote was said at the beginning of the first thread on the EU.
I have been saying I vote with my guts all along,; they tell me to vote to stay in.

Someone in the audience on QT said something like that there is a counter argument to every argument and it amounts to being neutral. Seems a resonable argument ?so we've wasted hours and hours?

Surely not, or perhaps everyone will be exhausted by the time of the referendum

fullfact.org/europe/first-they-came-vacuum-cleaners-will-it-be-kettles-next/

Reason to stay in the EU. Good for the environment.

Carney has expressed concerns about the effect Leaving might have on the economy.
Christine Legard, head of the IMF too.
I think it is utterly outrageous that the Leave bus is claiming on its side that they will spend the money that goes to the EU on the NHS. They should not be using the NHS logo in this way.
I note that some farmers are thinking that money is earmarked for them - to replace the farm subsidies they will leave.
DH says he has lost count of he number of ways the Leave camp would spend the same pot of money.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36286449

I think they have to pay to use the NHS logo, Jess, and tthe signs have to be certain sizes.
I am sure someone will check up on that.
The person who says she would spend it on the NHS is the Labour co-chair. I presume that's the way they think they will get the labour vote.
I'd be surprised if the Tories said the same; if they did, it would be a lie.

Christine Lagarde's essay on corruption.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/against-corruption-a-collection-of-essays/against-corruption-a-collection-of-essays#christine-lagarde-addressing-corruption--openly

Nothing in the NHS brand guidelines to say that they can use the logo in this way, Jess.

www.nhsidentity.nhs.uk/

"Government’s lawyers have insisted Vote Leave takes the leaflets out of public use by 8 March or it will face a legal battle. The DoH said: “We have informed Vote Leave this is an inappropriate use of the NHS brand.” "

This was in March, and just about the leaflets. Vote Leave say it's just government bullying. They have a lot of money to go to court. In the meantime, the logo stays.

Two days ago when the bus was unveiled they were threatened again by the government solicitors.