Kids on strike

You must be a lot younger than I am Lilyflower - we concentrated on taking the 11+ and those of us who looked like we might pass were hot-housed with extras homework and extra classes.

Happily I was a little swot and soaked it all up, but looking back, I suspect my acceptance into Grammar School was possibly at the expense of other children.

If the tests were able to show working class children who are brighter and who are capable of achieving more teachers might be much more open to them. As it is the same argument can be leveled at them as that made about the PIPs (administered when children start school) i.e. it is a cultural test that children from poor backgrounds fail because they do not have the vocab or the experiences to answer the questions.

I agree, trisher. The secondary schools where I worked hardly took any notice of SATs tests, because we knew that some primary schools taught to the test. We used to administer NFER CATs and a reading test. The CATs tests look a bit like IQ tests and it's difficult to cram for them.

There is a much stronger correlation between CATs and GCSEs than SATs and GCSE. The reading tests were interesting, because children with a high reading level at 11 but only average CATs scores tended to come from highly supportive (pushy) backgrounds. At the beginning of their life at secondary school they usually did well, but their advantage wore off as they were required to use higher level cognitive skills. Many of them reached a plateau.

What all this testing has shown is that results at 5 are a poor predictor of results at 16 or 18.

I passed my 11+, as did about half of the children in my very ordinary state primary school and we never had any homework. The headmaster of the school didn't even believe in selection, so we had loads of fun: pond-dipping, measuring the height of trees and going on walks. We did spend time in the classroom - sitting round tables, helping each other when needed.

PS. Actually it wasn't an ordinary school. It was a very progressive school and my parents were a bit hesitant about sending me there, but it had the best 11+ pass rate in town by far. We had spelling and times tables tests, but I don't remember any other testing.

What all this testing has shown is that results at 5 are a poor predictor of results at 16 or 18
and I would also add that results at 16 are often a poor predictor of what someone achieves by their late 30s!

You must be a lot younger than I am Lilyflower - we concentrated on taking the 11+ and those of us who looked like we might pass were hot-housed with extras homework and extra classes.
Anya I don't remember extra homework but the whole class concentrated for part of the week on 'test papers' for two years before the exam. I took it at age 9 (without a middle-class background or pushy parents!) - however, thank goodness I didn't pass the first time. I think we had to take a maturity test too (I don't think I was a very mature 9 year old).

I would also add that results at 16 are often a poor predictor of what someone achieves by their late 30s!

Agreed! It depends what you mean by achievement anyway.

I don't remember at primary school doing any specific practice for the 11+, although I know that a couple of pupils had tutors. The only practice I ever remember doing was being taken to the hall the day before the 11+ exam and practising lining up in alphabetical order and how to fill in the front of the paper with our name and DOB in the right boxes. I knew the exam was important and the secondary school I attended would depend on the result. It mattered more to my parents than it did to me at the time.

It depends what you mean by achievement anyway
I suppose different things to different people.
But, judging by a lot of posts on a lot of threads, having a job/career which is fulfilling, making a good difference to the world in general, having a salary sufficient to meet your needs including buying a property - as the alternative all seems to be such an unhappy struggle if you are not independent.

It's certainly one way of measuring achievement and having enough money to pay for a roof over your head and food in your tummy helps. The opposite is grim.

However, I do know a couple of people who have virtually nothing, but are brilliant at making things (one is a gardener and the other a carpenter). Both take enormous pride in what they achieve with their own creativity and work.

On the other hand, I know people who seem to 'have it all' but aren't fulfilled. Fifteen or so years ago, I was one of them. I even knew the difference between a coordinating and subordinating conjunction!

I am very impressed daphnedil!

And I should have added being able to provide for your children if you have any. You can make their clothes (I did) but you can't make new shoes and their feet grow so fast.

Oh yes! I have children. I was a single parent with a full-time job and two school age children for 15 years. I feel I achieved something getting through those years.

PS. AND I know what a subjunctive is! I'm multi-talented!