Should we be worried about right-wing populism?

So you agree that racism exists then?

There's more to it than that, thatbags. You ignore white supremacists (of whom there are thousands worldwide), who ruthlessly exploit the people 'left behind'. They are the real powers behind racism and xenophobia.

secure.avaaz.org/en/uk_reject_racism_/?bkHcnjb&v=78589&cl=10314342622&_checksum=fc5e17e6baec3c739666fa97385b8c294f027bc16369b33b75ce4b96a94f77f8

To the media.

I think it a good idea Bags to remember that the rich and privileged can also be racist and xenophobic. Which is why the UK government in the 1930s closed our borders with adult Jews fleeing the Nazis. The government was not run by the poor. Or look at the way many rich Southerners in the USA still look down on black people. The difference between them and the poor is that they have power over so much and the poor so little.

I have no quarrel with that post, jess.

But I came back to the thread to post this from the Australian philosopher, Russell Blackford, which supports my claim about left-wingness in universities: "...there is now a prevalent equation within the social sciences and humanities of relativist conceptions of truth and reality with left-wing social critique".

Relativist is the important word.

The quote is from this article, The Left's Defection from Progress.

Relativism rejects ideas such as absolute truth, but isn't necessarily left wing.

thatbags I still can't see your point. Are you saying that certain philosophies/ideological concepts should not be taught at university?

Are you saying that universities are teaching (left wing ideology) certain philosophies at the expense of others?
Are you saying that these left wing ideas are dangerous
Are you saying that left wing ideas amount to left wing populism.

I am struggling here to quite understand your argument.

dd, yes, I agree. But Blackford is talking about left-wing relativism. That there isn't also right-wing relativism does not follow from saying that there is left-wing relativism.

ww

thatbags I still can't see your point. Are you saying that certain philosophies/ideological concepts should not be taught at university?
No, though I would say "taught about" rather than just taught.

Are you saying that universities are teaching (left wing ideology) certain philosophies at the expense of others?
I'm saying that others, with far more knowledge of the phenomenon than I have, think this is the case.

Are you saying that these left wing ideas are dangerous
I'm saying some left-wing ideas are dangerous, yes.

Are you saying that left wing ideas amount to left wing populism.
No, I'm saying that I would put some left-wing ideas in a left-wing populism category.

I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that there is a regression in some left-wing thinking because left-wing ideas have been and still are to a large extent associated with progressive thinking.

Yes, I know, but I'm going back to your argument that right wing populism has been caused by left wing populism and I honestly don't think it has. Right wing populism has been around as a political and social force for at least hundred years (maybe longer) and the reasons for it are quite complex.

Communism and socialism weren't populist movements. Trade unionism, which is the core of the British Labour Party, has always been quite socially conservative. Nonconformist religion has played a part in that.

Relativism has been around since people started rejecting religion as absolute truth during the Enlightenment.

I would also reject the idea that universities, even humanities and social studies departments, are hotbeds of left wing populism. As I've mentioned before, my daughter left uni just over a year ago with a humanities MA and I've discussed politics and her courses with her. I've also met some of her uni friends. They most certainly are not extreme left wing.

My argument that right-wing populism has caused left-wing populism? Where did I argue that? I don't recall ever doing so.

I'm sure the reasons for any kind of political populism are complex and I'm sure relativism has been around for a long time. Er... so what? How does this affect the argument (which is not my argument, it's just one I'm reading about and talking about) that there exists at the moment a new type of populism that some people are calling Regressive Leftism or, as I called it "left-wing populism".

Sorry, got that the wrong way round: you said I argued that right-wing populism has been caused by left-wing populism. I think I understand what you're saying. Did I really say that one had caused the other? What I think is that certain left-wing ideas have certainly encouraged recent right-wing populism, but not caused it.

I keep seeing mentions, for instance, of Labour supporters defecting to Ukip? If that is true, what's it all about? I don't get it.

certain recent left-wing ideas.... encouraging or at least having a bearing on certain recent right-wing ideas.

Yes, you did (way back).

I suspect because the British working class has always been quite socially conservative (with a small c). When the slave trade was abolished, it was the liberal middle classes who supported it for ethical reasons, while the working class objected because they saw that their jobs were at risk, because cotton was no longer a cheap import and some factories closed down.

I think we're seeing a similar phenomenon now. Whether or not it's true that immigrants are 'stealing their jobs', many of them certainly believe they are and Ukip plays to those fears, while Labour is seen as a London-centric party, which is more than willing to play along with capitalism (even when doing so makes economic sense).

There is a history of right-wing ideologues exploiting the fears of the most vulnerable.

Which left wing ideas? To be honest, I don't really see many of them.

bags what do you mean by taught about rather than just taught?

I would be very interested to see the evidence for this as I have seen no evidence of this at all listening to those young I know reading those courses. There may be arguments by some right wingers who suggest this but it isn't the same as evidence.

Which left wing ideas are dangerous?

Yes I agree with your last statement.

No I don't struggle with the regression idea at all.

ww the same as I would mean if I said that I think religions should be taught about in schools, as opposed to children being taught to believe certain things.

Will come back to your other questions this afternoon.

dd This article from Quora gives a good rundown on reggressive leftism.

Like the author, I'd describe myself, if I ever had to, which I don't, as a left-leaning atheist. Among other things!

Gotta go just now.

Undergraduates are taught how to analyse and evaluate all sorts of ideas - left and right wing.

I don't have a Quora password.

Yes DD is right. They aren't taught to believe in one thing or another, if you believe that then you do not understand university, they simply could not operate like that, well I suppose if they were in China or Iran or North Korea, but I assume you wouldn't want to be line that.

I don't have a Quora password either, dd. Will check if there's another way to view.

I can read it OK - didn't ask me for a Quora password.

I'm sure dd is right about what/how things are taught at unis. I was just being precise with language. There have been so many misunderstandings of what I'm saying recently, I'm trying to be as exact as I can. Even so, it seems people think I'm then arguing with something when all I'm trying to be is, as I said, as precise as possible.

No wonder I say hey ho so often!