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UK? No

(193 Posts)
Anniebach Mon 30-May-16 13:02:28

BBC news announced the English football squad would be given extra protection as would the other home countries . Seems we should refer to the UK as England and Co. Or England and the rest

granjura Mon 30-May-16 20:32:54

Oh yes- and my part of Switzerland was still Prussian until 1848. And Alsace belonged to Germany, and Savoie was Swiss- and Yugoslavia was one country, and so on.

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 20:33:49

Wales was united with the English crown in the 13th century by Edward I, long before Henry Tudor seized the crown of England and Wales through some dodgy ancestral claims.

Jalima Mon 30-May-16 20:35:29

Yugoslavia was a 'cobbled together country' after 1918 and became the Kingdom of Yogoslavia in 1929.

granjura Mon 30-May-16 20:58:23

exactly - my mother was the guest of the Queen in 1931, both in Zagreb and Bled.

granjura Mon 30-May-16 21:00:50

The point being that many European countries which seem to be 'one' were in fact until not so long ago, just a diverse in culture and languages as Wales, Scotland, England and NI.

granjura Mon 30-May-16 21:04:41

Many Italians still do not accept unification, and want the North (rich and well educated !) and the South (poor and speaking weird dialects !) ... to be separated again. Don't ask a Milanese to be assimilated to a Napolitan- or else)...

Anniebach Mon 30-May-16 21:12:53

England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales are four countries so far more than culture and language. What were the two sets rate countries of Italy called before they become one country ?

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 21:22:48

@granjura

And don't mention Sicily!

thatbags Mon 30-May-16 21:24:45

Have you ever read the Cadfael mysteries, ab, by Ellis Peters? Great stories based in and around medieval Shrewsbury. Some of the stories extend into Wales and Cadfael himself is Welsh, as the name suggests.

granjura Mon 30-May-16 21:29:45

daphne you beat me to it! Sicilians and Calabrese still use dialects which are totally different to Italian- and that Northern Italians just couldn't comprehend. In fact the whole of the South, including Sicily, was 'Sicily- then the centre was ther papal States, and the North a whole array of small countries, including Tuscany, and Sardinia in the NE, including the island of, Lombardia and Tyrol, etc.

As you say, much more than language- different ethnic groups and history altogether- but not separated by an obvious dividing barrier like Offa's Dike or Adrian's wall.

Anniebach Mon 30-May-16 21:36:19

But what were the two separate countries which are now Italy caked, culture and language alone doesn't make a country ,

granjura Mon 30-May-16 21:41:51

I did attempt to reply in my last post- it also included history, genetics, ethnicity and origins, history of different regions, and so much more.

trisher Mon 30-May-16 21:42:14

Thought about this and don't think I would mind if Welsh news channels announced this as for Wales and the other home countries,ditto Scotland, so English news should be allowed England.

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 21:49:14

In 1858, they were: the Kingdom of the two Sicilies, the Papal states, Tuscany, Venetia, Modena, Parma, Sardinia and Lombardy. The country now known as Italy was even more fragmented before then.

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 21:50:10

But this was the BBC! The BBC is supposed to be British, not English.

thatbags Mon 30-May-16 22:40:46

Can Ireland be counted as a "home team" if it is a team from all Ireland? It's still British as in part of the British Isles but not part of the UK, so it wouldn't be right to refer to it as one of the UK countries, as the OP seems to be suggesting.

German unification (not counting after the pulling down of the Berlin Wall) was relatively late too, wasn't it? Nineteenth century, Bismarck and all that. Has someone already mentioned that? I expect I'm not keeping up very well here at the back.

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 22:47:18

1870, although the German borders weren't the same as they were in 1918, 1945 or today.

I read about a man from Alsace, who had fought for the French twice and the Germans once. He was threatened with a court martial for treason.

daphnedill Mon 30-May-16 22:48:28

PS. Bavaria (Bayern) still doesn't like to think of itself as part of Germany.

Jalima Mon 30-May-16 23:51:38

thatbags and annieb wasn't Cadfael on tv ages ago with Derek Jacobi as the eponymous monk?

Jalima Mon 30-May-16 23:54:50

I thought Italy was the result of the unification of several small states, not just north and south.

Jalima Mon 30-May-16 23:55:49

Ignore my post above
granjura already posted that!

nigglynellie Tue 31-May-16 06:55:10

The Nomans actually began the invasion of Wales soon after the conquest, doing various deals with different Chieftains. There was sporadic insurrection in Wales, hence the building of those castles, till the laws in Wales act of 1535-42 when Wales was finally incorporated into the kingdom of England.

thatbags Tue 31-May-16 07:12:10

Yes, I was thinking about the Normans in Wales (as well as England) when I mentioned Cadfael.

nigglynellie Tue 31-May-16 08:19:29

Yes, they were always dashing over the border in order to escape the kings men!!!!! Must say, I loved that series, but then I am a Derek Jacobi fan as well as a history one!

Anniebach Tue 31-May-16 08:34:32

BBC means BRITISH Broadcasting not English Broadcasting , the licence fee is the same in the four countries .