A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

Of course she can change her mind GT - I'm just querying why she (allegedly) supported the leave campaign in the first case, given her history of usually voting in favour of more European integration

Just seen her on tv ,it seems it was more a point of honour, as the £ amount on the Leave battle bus is actually the amount we hand over to the EU ( but we get some money back so not the true picture) a mistake to do this IMO because although true that is the amount handed over, not everyone will know we get some money back, so a deceiving claim really.I can understand her not liking this, but not to the tune of voting the other way.Perhaps in the privacy of the voting booth, she will really vote OUT.Maybe Corbyn will as well?

The out team gave been told officially it is a false claim and to stop using it but have not stopped. She said the figures as to what will be spent on the NHS are also lies.

"Told officially"

oo-er



This does not mean I'm disagreeing about anything.

Dr Wollaston is chair of the NHS select committee. Perhaps it is the fact that the battle bus (buses?) are still implying that there would be an extra £360 spent on the NHS that has stuck in her craw.

They've also been told to stop using the NHS logo in their 'Save our NHS' slogan which is plastered all over their promotional material. Vote Leave had a stall at my local market last week with a prominent 'Save our NHS' poster and leaflets with the NHS logo. I believe the logo is still on the battle bus.

It's clever marketing, especially given the public support for the junior doctors' industrial action.

I don't believe anybody who genuinely cares about the NHS and actually knows about what's going on from the inside, as I believe Dr Wollaston does, could live with that.

If OUT are only saying that's what we hand over, they are not being deceptive. And the point is that if we were not a member of the EU, we wouldn't be 'handing over' any money and there would be no overheads, such as in the cost of the EU handing some of it back. I wonder how much of it goes on admin and clerical costs?

Who is doing all this telling?

I suppose IN is not using any clever marketing?

So you're happy for Vote Leave to mislead?

I expect the IN is going all out on the marketing front, sometimes the marketing goes over the top and people just go along with it.
The message about money on the battle bus is true ( the amount handed over to EU)
Which is why they won't change it (though because it's been all over the news, you would have to live in a cave not to know that some money does come back from it.)

It's still misleading. It's also misleading to say that any money saved would go to the NHS, when it's also been promised to Welsh farmers, fishermen, schools, Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

'Save our NHS' is a powerful message for those who prefer their politics in short soundbites and it's misleading. Even Vote Leave campaigners have admitted that there is likely to be an economic downturn after any BREXIT decision. Therefore, there's likely to be less money available for the NHS and, with the likes of Liam Fox more influential, you can count down the days to more
privatisation. Some people might call it lying!

Vote Leave has twice the financial resources of the IN campaign and has obviously employed some slick advertising and marketing people.

daphnedill. Yesterday's post 18.23pm
You dont really believe that "The UK is already in control of its own country, so nothing to gain as far as I'm concerned" do you?

No, dd, I didn't I said that I was 'happy' for OUT to mislead. That is your interpretation of what I said.

I'm not 'happy' for them to mislead. Is that clear enough?

I don't think the IN campaign has been without fault. A lot of what it has said is pure speculation, which can also be very misleading.

However, in the real world, this happens in politics. Although it is not desirable, I think that human nature being what it is, it's probably inevitable. That statement isn't excusing it either; just being realistic. Scepticism and being a devil's advocate help, I find.

You dont really believe that "The UK is already in control of its own country, so nothing to gain as far as I'm concerned" do you?

I do obieone.

@obieone

Yes, I do.

@thatbags

I don't think the 'in' campaign has been without fault either. In fact, I think it's been an appalling campaign. However, Vote Leave has consistently used a misleading figure on its battle bus and its propaganda material, which people who don't bother too much about checking facts believe. It knows perfectly well that the public cares about the NHS, so 'Save our NHS' and linking that slogan with an inaccurate figure is misleading. Wollaston knows very well that it's wrong.

Blair and Major are both in NI just now, issuing dire warnings about the peace process if we leave the EU.I consider this to be scaremongering of the worst type, and far worse than the battle bus of the Vote Leave group.

That doesn't mean that two wrongs make a right btw but it does illustrate that neither camp have covered themselves in glory (at a national level.)

The last thing that NI needs is a new border going up - these two former PMs know only to well how hard won the peace process was. If the Republic of Ireland was in the EU and NI out then that would be the obvious route for anyone trying to enter the UK - unless of course we still had the free movement of labour as part of a trade agreement.

Former Irish president Mary Macaleese has issued the same warning.

Perhaps that is why the voters in NI are more strongly in favour of Remain than voters in any other part of the UK.

dd, do you think it's misleading to give the message that not having to pay money to the EU would mean more could be used for the NHS?

I agree about the actually potentially misleading figure problem. I use potentially because I have not been misled by it. Can't speak for anyone else.

'You should be ashamed of yourself!': Rattled Osborne forced to admit pensioners WON'T be worse off after Brexit as he's mauled for scaremongering on live TV
Osborne was confronted with a Remain poster showing controversial stats and a pensioner with an empty purse
During their fraught 30-minute encounter, Mr Neil pointed to the empty purse poster released by the Osborne-backed Britain Stronger in Europe group. He then told the Chancellor: ‘You’ve been scaring pensioners. You should be ashamed of yourself.’
Being as we are talking about lying posters

MARGARET Thatcher's former defence secretary has suspended his own membership from the Tory party because of "poisonous" David Cameron's "tirade of fear" against a Brexit.
Sir John Nott condemned the Prime Minister and fellow pro-EU campaigner George Osborne for "poisoning the debate" with "frenetic" warnings about Britain if it leaves the EU.
In a letter to MP Derek Thomas, Sir John revealed he will not renew his Tory membership "until we have a change of leadership".
The former Tory's condemnation of the Remain camp comes as Cameron was accused of taking advantage of a crash in the Government’s voter registration website to boost support for the pro-EU campaign.
The deadline for signing up to vote for the referendum was extended by 48 hours.
Sir John added he was "quite upset" by the Chancellor's decision to release a Treasury document which claimed British families would be £4,300 a year worse off in the case of a Brexit.
He told the Telegraph: "I thought to myself, ‘is this a joke? Is the Chancellor really suggesting that anyone can predict what the world will be like in 2030? How is this possible?”

There would be be no physical border, that has been stated already.It would not be rocket science to agree any trade problems caused by Eire being in the EU and NI being out of it.It has been reported that Catholics in NI are more in favour of Remain due to Dublin being in favour if it for NI, but Protestant voters being inclined for Leave.

Why is it that warning voters of the dangers of voting to Leave is called "scaremongering"

The same nasty terminology was used by the SNP two years ago when voters were warned about the huge hole in the Scottish economy as oil revenues decline which means that Scotland needs to be subsidised by the rest of the UK.

The warnings have since proved to be absolutely correct and so many Scots, including me, are very glad that voters were warned.

Quite a few posters on these threads have accused the Leave campaign of scaremongering, too. Why is it only 'nasty terminology' if applied to Remain campaigners?