A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

Merkel made it clear -we will be mincemeat.

I considered it whitewave, my family live and work abroad but it will not change my mind.

Do they know? Out of interest.

Yes Welshwife when they talk about "tariffs" that is exactly what happens. If I order something online from the USA there is a tariff - a customs charge - that has to be paid on top of the price. So it makes buying USA goods more costly to us. This is what will happen to the UK if we leave - when UK companies want to sell something to Italy, France or Germany there will be a % tariff applied thus making our goods more expensive at the other end and putting the Uk company at a disadvantage compared to other EU countries. This, and the probable effect on job losses is, in some people's opinion, a small price to pay for "more democracy".

Practical started this thread by telling us "I have done hours of research" Yet the sources she quotes to validate her views are partisan in the extreme - Europhobe, Christopher Booker and Vernon Coleman.

Googling for extreme Eurosceptic arguments which back up the view you have already formed is not research

I am sure nothing will change practical's decision to vote out but if there are any "still don't knows" reading this thread, I urge them to look at more objective, unbiased sources or at least listen to both sides of the argument.

Like practical, I love my country (and yes I am British and do live in the UK) and my children and grandchildren and that is why I want us to stay IN. You don't have to be an "outer" to make that claim

fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-uk-and-eurozone/

We will not have the Euro if we stay in.

I was listening this morning to a Thatcher guru whose neo liberal ideology brought about 3 million unemployed and loss of workers rights which is considered essential in a free market economy.
He told the interviewer that "we will be able to go back to a free market and of course all the bureaucracy associated with workers conditions will go - this will free up business"

What an outlook!

granjura, if you are talking to me, yes the family know how I feel.

She also linked to 'Western Spring', which is a nasty white supremacist, national socialist online rag, in support of her stance. Nobody, except me, commented on it, unlike those posters who are very quick to jump on other posters for posting links. I hope nobody was taken it by the article in the link.

On the other hand Jess- if the £ plummets as planned- it would make exporting easier ... every cloud ... Tragic lining though

Thanks harrigran, the question was indeed to you.

Jess I think the yoghurt lady was stating about Denmark as they pay to be part of the free trade area - I assumed that meant that it worked like the rest of the EU and there were no tariffs between the members, Switzerland has a similar agreement - do we still pay tariffs for their goods? GJ may be able to tell us about that one. I was very surprised.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

I wont be posting anything but links because the in lot have bullied their way in and taken over this thread.
So if you need to take over everything take it.
Ana I know how you feel it's a gut feeling that no one will change just a shame if they keep us in we have to suffer the same fate

We've been banging on about TTIP for ever.

@ practical

Complain to GN! I wasn't aware that there was provision for private, segregated threads. People's myths and lies have been challenged. That's not bullying.

I don't report people it's not in my make up. This thread was lovely and friendly and we all felt comfortable as soon as the bullying started people left. If only people realised we can't be bullied into voting for what you all seem to want. It is presumed that everything anyone puts up who wants out is a lie so I can do without the stress. None of the in lot will believe what any of the out lot say and visa versa so for me there is no point.

Out. Not giving any reason but have decided by reading everything I can from both sides.

granjura I thought you lived in Switzerland (a country I love). I am not saying you are not entitled to vote but why do you constantly refer to "us* when you make comments when you live elsewhere. Please believe me I do not intend any offence just wonder if you would have a different opinion if you were permanently living in the UK.

Sorry practical - this issue just can't be about feeling cosy, surely. There has been no bullying, at all, just people presenting counter arguments. This is what happens on an open Forum- expecting anything else is just, sorry, naïve. And I'm afraid so it believing other EU countries will bend over backwards to help the UK with reciprocal agreements if Brexit does go through- truly.

I feel that perhaps for some older people, there is some resentment that although they won the war- Germany picked themselves so well with such determination and success- perhaps.

Practical, thank you for the TTIP link.

Like you, I do am not happy with TTIP, especially as it could affect the NHS, however this article dated from last year and since then, I understand that David Cameron, as part of his negotiations, got an agreement for the UK that the NHS would be exempt from TTIP.

I'm not a big fan of David Cameron, but I think this was a good result.

The BBC link about government aid for steel was from the end of March and has since been shown to be wrong

Have you got an update please daphnedil?
Has the BBC apologised for misleading the public?
Why don't they take it down if it was wrong?

Thanks crafting, I am so happy to hear you love Switzerland. I was just a kid when I came to work in London, fell in love and married a Brit, and lived all my adult life in the UK until retirement. I have been British since 1973. Our adult children and so many family and friends, and of course GCs are in the UK- and we still have a flat in the UK and visit several times a year, and may well return at some point.

The 'us' here perhaps is mostly linked to the fact we live here on UK pensions alone. We have lost 40% of income due to poor £ exchange rate since we moved here- and if Brexit goes through, and the pounf plummets steeply, as is forecast, we will be up creek without a paddle. So this is why I say 'us'as we will be directly affected by the decision. And for our British adult children and grand-children even more.

If we do decide to come back at some point- it would be nice to be a decision we make for the right reasons, rather than because the very low £ forces us to. Hope you understand.

Crafting, we also benefit from the reciprocal agreements re health care here. This probably would be cancelled if Brexit goes through- forcing us to pay for very expensive private health care here- which the very weak £ would be prohibitive.

It isn't bullying practical. You seem afraid someone will present an opposing view. Really ... your own thread labelled "opposing views not allowed? I'm afraid that says quite a bit about the strength (or not) of your argument surely. I know you will never change your view so why stop others expressing theirs or exposing the paucity of those put forward by the outers for the sake of those still making up the minds.

It was reported extensively elsewhere as well.