A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

I have noticed that anything which is showing incorrect facts about the referendum is classed in this thread as bullying. Some Brexiters have posted quite a lot on the other referendum threads and on them all views have been given and some answered but no one was accused of bullying.
I just think it is not worth risking all we have gained by leaving the EU now. I am convinced that we are just entering a phase of change from within and it would be good this time to be involved - the last time we had such a chance Atlee turned it down. The UK is very different now to how it was in the 70s - would you really want yo go back - I assume some must wish to go someway towards that to want to leave.

That post was to daphnedil re the bbc link I put on
Other posts came in between to confuse the issue

Mob handed! It was predicted. Path-et-ic

granjura thank you for your polite reply. I am glad you realised I wasn't trying to be offensive. I think we all have personal reasons for our decision to vote in or out. I too have British children and grandchildren living in the UK (as do we) and I want to vote out for their sakes. I would like to think any jobs going would be for them and other UK born residents no matter what their race or religion. I would like immigration figures reduced.

The reciprocal healthcare arrangements mean nothing to us as we do not live abroad (and pay a hefty insurance for cover when on holiday due to health problems) but I am getting very concerned re the demand on the NHS in this country.

I respect that, even if I don't agree. 1000s of elderly British expats like us having no choice but to return- would also put a large burden on the NHS - and on social services too.

So many jobs done by immigrants are not wanted by the un-employed of Britain, as was made vera clear on the news by fruit and veg growers- they have tried to get local workers who are unemployed, without any success.

Thanks for discussing sincerely.

Anya, your last post didn't contribute much to the debate I sadly have to say.

Of course EHIC would no longer apply- and even emergency cover will not be given until Brits can prove they are insured on arrival to hospital in the EU or Switzerland.

Gracesgran Thu 02-Jun-16 20:35:38

It isn't bullying practical. You seem afraid someone will present an opposing view. Really ... your own thread labelled "opposing views not allowed? I'm afraid that says quite a bit about the strength (or not) of your argument surely

Where did I put "opposing views not allowed"
stop twisting everything I say just because I don't go over the top like you do don't mean I can't if I don't want to

Anya agreed it is the way of the in lot

The EU has shelved plans to ban 31 different pesticides thought to responsible for foetal abnormalities, male infertility and a range of other diseases.
Newly released documents suggest the proposal was dropped after pressure from the United States amid ongoing negotiations over the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) – a deal between the US and Europe to promote free trade.
don't know of that's true or not but no doubt it will be picked over edited altered and what ever the ones who have taken over here decide

pratical - it's such a shame that your good intentions with this thread have been hijacked. Some have already ruined the other EU threads and are now on here doing the same. You have every right to feel aggrieved. We all want to give an opinion, but, there are ways and means.

All the referendum threads are getting really nasty now. The aftermath of the result, whatever it is, will be even worse!

It's hardly worth coming on Gransnet any more.

practical I was replying to this part of your overall rather attacking post

I thought the out lot could have a thread ...but the in lot weather they live in Britain or not have come and hijacked it because they can't bear anyone having their own opinion if it's different from theirs

I think it is not unreasonable for me to take from this rather savage post that you saying you do not want anyone you deem to "the in lot", i.e., you do not want opposing views.

Please stop making personal remarks - I have not "twisted everything you say" just replied to it and I do not "go over the top". This is a subject we all feel strongly about and descending to personal remarks is what I would call bullying - I have not come anywhere near this just challenged some of the views on the EU and the so called facts behind them.

you are saying

I thought the out lot could have a thread ...but the in lot weather they live in Britain or not have come and hijacked it because they can't bear anyone having their own opinion if it's different from theirs

surely this is exactly what you meant practical

Perhaps then the best one could say is 'POT ... KETTLE' re bullying.

Truly what is at stake here is massive. The issues are very complext and confusing. You say you've done lots of research and came to the OUT conclusions. Many of us have done lots of research and have come to a different conclusion Respect is required on both side- and requesting that a thread sticks to one side only is just not on on a public Forum.

I do feel though- that we've met before- somehow.

Ana I feel the same. I really don't know if this is the kind of forum I wish to be associated with any more.
GNHQ would do well to look at the way certain threads are being dominated in a way which is deliberate and nasty, by just a few individuals. This is closing down intelligent debate and driving others off the threads.
It is almost as if it was actually co-ordinated, but of course that couldn't possibly be the case we know...
I would be perfectly willing to stay and fight my corner, with for example Mamie or others who are capable of conducting a reasoned and intelligent discussion. But I'm not prepared to sink to the level that had been displayed too often on this forum.
I only pop in now and again to state my case these days but it's getting less and less and I can see I'll gradually stop posting altogether.

I realise there are many jobs in the UK done by immigrants because the un employed of Britain won't do them (or won't do them for tHe low pay some immigrants will accept) but we don't have enough schools, doctors, hospital beds, care homes, prisons etc for the current population. The immigrant population are having higher numbers of births and there aren't enough school places for all the children. The vast number of different languages needed in schools causes problems too. I worry about where my DGC are going to live, work etc if he population continues to increase.

That is indeed a concern- and it is essential that the Government begins to realise that the % of money spent on education and health is much smaller than other European countries- and that this does impact on provision.

It has always been accepted that anyone can post on any thread (providing it is within GN rules). No one can dictate what is or is not posted.
Unfortunately there are those that flood threads with their views over and over, but that is the nature of political and religious threads.
I'm sure things will get nastier after the vote - the result of the general election is still rumbling through some threads.
Time to head for some less contentious threads.

What confuses me is that the in lot do not have a dedicated thread. I am also confused by what I see as debate, as being classed as bullying.

Still in consolation this is nothing compared to what the Tories can produce. Now watch and learn and you'll see what bullying really is.

I was always taught that when someone could not accept questioning and debate about their views it was generally because they already realised that the stance they had taken was untenable and was based on doubtful and inaccurate information. Nuff said!

Anya, before you go, or change name again - could you give examples of this, please- as I cannot find any, apart from the one I've quoted below by practical

* in a way which is deliberate and nasty,* thanks.

Your own personal attacks on the same posters, again and again- are indeed sadly quite unpleasant.

fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/

More TTIP, and up to date.

The best suggestion I have read re the referendum is this.....If the UK was not already part of the EU,would you want to join it in its current state?
I feel that many people would answer NO.

Two things puzzle me.
If leaving the EU is so bad for the country,why did the Prime Minister risk giving the electorate a referendum?

Secondly,why have the government no strategy in place in the event that we do actually vote out ?

Well said, granny2016.

This article is good: There is no safety inside the arrogant, imperial, and dangerously unstable EU.