EU - I'm in a quandary

You'll find obione that even those who have firmly decided for 'remain' are not aware that there are many negative or even deplorable things about the EU that do not need to be addressed. Most FAT CATS in the uk are not related to Europe- Europe didn't cause our banks to fail, Europe is not those who do not pay fair tax and live off the dividends of companies that do not pay fair tax.

But yes, there are fat cats in the EU- one of the worst examples is Farage- who gets paid a high salary to be MEP and had not done his job at all- attending only 1 of 40+ meetings for the Fisheries Commission- than dares complain that the UK has not had a fair deal (despite having 2nd highest quota) - how dares he go on about it- when he has not done his job in any way shape or form, to fight for the UK's interests.

... are aware (no 'not')

Well, one thing if we Brexit, he will be out of a job granjura - that can't be bad can it?

(but if we remain, what will be his position then )

No he won't he will step into the Lords and take his place in Johnsons cabinet.

So many people are SO SURE of what will happen
and the more people who think they KNOW what will happen, the more it encourages people to vote Brexit.

The truth is, no-one knows
Pundits, financiers, experts in their fields - they are not always right.
As for the last recession - how come ordinary people could see it would all end in tears, but the politicians could not see it coming?

That doesn't make sense. We don't know what will happen if Brexit win so it's better to vote for that because we definitely won't know [which is a certainty] #betterthedevilyoudontknowthantheoneyoudo

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?

obione, those are the real fat cats (doesn't make any EU fat cats excusable, at all- but the least of our worries really:

An extract from Paul Mason's article arguing that Brexit is a "fake revolt".
www.theguardian.com/…/brexit-fake-revolt-eu-working…

Dyson is campaigning for out - so out that he has taken his production units to Malaysia for cheap labour - is that what we want!? Has he really got British workers at heart?

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?
Everyone I know - we talked about it (a couple of financial experts amongst my friends and family, but most are not). Surely most people with any sense could see that the reckless lending by banks and the reckless spending on credit would all end in tears?

That doesn't make sense
probably not to you, but it does to me The more people have their ears bashed by dire warnings of what WILL happen, veiled comments and inferences that they are racist thugs if they vote out, the more they will think 'well, I am NOT a racist thug and there are many reasons for voting out, lets have a good think about it all'.
People don't have to like Farage or agree with him to want to vote out for reasons which they have worked out for themselves from listening, reading, balanced discussions.
Likewise, many people seem to loathe Cameron and Osborne but will still vote remain despite that and despite not agreeing with much that they say at all.

Rubbish, Jalima. You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you? Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

This is interesting, about the single market. It's not possible with services, as it requires the free movement of people. 80% of our trade with the EU is in services. There is no single market agreement over services anywhere in the world because of that.

ukandeu.cmail19.com/t/r-l-skldtc-hypjyhjw-m/

Sorry, there is no free trade agreement over services without the free movement of people.

You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you?
Why on earth would we laugh? People we know lost their homes; were left in debt because they borrowed to the hilt.

That is a stupid comment djen and very rude.
Par for the course I suppose
And no, it is not hindsight, we were worried about the unlimited borrowing and spending but were being reassured 'no more boom and bust'.

I always get bothered by anyone, anyone at all who says hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Foresight used to be valued, expected and talked about.

You never hear it said about nowadays. Especially by leaders. It seems to have gone out of fashion.

Pleased I bother you, obieone.

jamila I am impressed that your friends understood what was going on in relation to bank leverage and the sub- prime mortgages. Because in a lot of cases even the bankers didn't understand the implication of what was being done.

jalima

Obviously not as clever as Jamila and her friends.

Which ordinary people do you know who could see that last recession, Jalima, and why did they not tell anyone?
Rubbish, Jalima. You all just watched and sat back and laughed, did you? Hindsight's a wonderful thing.
Foresight is good too, and some members of my family did have that and were in a position to warn but no notice was taken.

That's what some of us find appalling and is what you find appalling from the opposite perspective.

I do see why most posters leave the political threads and just a few end up talking amongst themselves.

Enjoy

Obviously not as clever as Jamila and her friends.
Obviously not

Jalima, you are right, it is the rudeness of certain posters such as you have just experienced that dissuades others from joining in, leaving a particular group (the converted) to talk amongst themselves. It certainly does stifle conversion which is a great pity.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-fake-revolt-eu-working-class-culture-hijacked-help-elite

It's not stifled conversation at all. You've just joined in, niggly.

It's OK, nigglynellie I have by now realised that I know nothing much, and what I do know is worthless, not worth an opinion really
but I am psychic

nigglenellie was talking to me, I think, not everyone in general.

Although I'm a firm Remain voter I have to spring to Jalima's defence. DH and I and many of our acquaintances definitely foresaw the looming problems of the crazy lending that was going on. I well remember begging our youngsters not to take out the massive mortgage that they were offered. We were very worried and, as it turned out, we were right to be. The pity was that the fat cats couldn't seem to see what was obviously going to happen -or maybe they did but didn't care. Jalima is not alone.