Orlando Shootings

Terrible tragedy, I also think this murderer had links with isis, targeting gay people whose lifestyle they object to. Why do these vermin have the right to judge anyone, hitler and the nasis did just that and look what they did, exterminated millions of innocent human beings. This murdering scumbags father spoke on the news and said that it was up to god to punish the gays, even if there was a god then surely he would not behave in this way,I am not religious so maybe isis would want to kill me as well.

Sadly the gun lobby in USA is so powerful and rich it's unlikely anything will change. They put their support behind their chosen candidates and so it goes on. President Obama has tried to make changes but to no avail.

As an American I can tell you that mental health is the last thing addressed in this country. Unfortunately if people can't buy any weapon legally they will get it illegally. I was a former teacher who never thought about kids getting killed in school until Columbine. And I had many children with mental issues that had anger issues as well.
It's too late now to get everyone's guns back. Because our Bill of Rights which was written in the 1700's says " we have the right to bear arms" everyone thinks they should own one. That right was made at a time when men needed to protect their land from others. I despise the fact that we now have to worry about everything, about going to the movies, being in a nightclub, going to a restaurant or school. I'm sad for the generation growing up.

Nonio I think this article was the one I was really looking for. Poor Obama will not get anywhere with this but at least he has had the courage to say what he thinks about his country's gun laws.

And here is another link to a different, but very interesting article from the New York Times that has analysed where the guns came from in the last 16 mass shootings. At least half of the gunmen had criminal histories or documented mental health issues...but, of course, there are then the remaining eight.

If guns can be obtained with relative ease and there is culture that promotes gun ownership (legal or otherwise) then expect them to be used...and in a way you would not wish.

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html?_r=0

I forgot the link (see post from me above)

theconversation.com/six-things-americans-should-know-about-mass-shootings-48934?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20June%2013%202016%20-%205025&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20June%2013%202016%20-%205025+CID_653d70123185b28611203bb2a05c7f76&utm_source=campaign_monitor_uk&utm_term=Six%20things%20Americans%20should%20know%20about%20mass%20shootings

It is a blinking man made tragedy.

For those who are interested in some comparitive facts on gun ownership and mass shootings between here in the UK and some other Western World Countries here is a link to a very interesting article written by a criminologist from George Washington University.

Despite intentional homicide rates decreasing by 40 - 50% in all 11 countries mentioned, mass shootings in the USA have increased massively in the same period and the association between gun ownership and mass shootings is high.

I dispute that it is easy to get and own an assault rifle here in the UK...although, of course, if you mix with a criminal sub culture who deals in guns, it is always possible. There isn't really an appetite for gun ownership here and I hope there never is.

In the decades that I prosecuted criminals I only once, despite dealing with several murders, prosecuted some for actually using a gun, and that was a shotgun used by a farmer pursuit of a fox, missing and hitting a chap on the side of the main road.

There were a few armed robberies where sawn off shotguns were carried but not used. Even those were very rare.

I felt for Obama, he spoke about the stupidity of their guns laws, but knew he was talking to deaf ears. How many tragedies does it take the US to realise that guns are dangerous. So sad for everyone caught up in this.

I shall never understand their gun laws. To be able to buy guns like shopping for sweets is amazing. Not just little ones but great big assault rifles than can kill 50 people and injure so many more. My heart goes out to everyone affected, not to mention the Muslims who are demonized by one madman.

What makes it even sadder is that most of the victims were presumably gay and would have had to face bigotry and prejudice all their lives, only to be shot down in a place where they felt at home.

I was in Oklahoma a few years ago on holiday and went into a Walmart for a bottle of wine for the evening. They didnt sell alcohol, it is the Bible Belt after all, but they sold a vast array of firearms! I know if someone really wants to kill they will find a way but in the USA the gun laws make it too easy.

See this in the so called greatest democracy in the one of the richest countries in the world.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/orlando-nightclub-attack-worst-mass-shooting-in-us-timeline-2012-florida-lgbt-gay-nightclub-pulse-a7078156.html

'Swimhome Until we realise that all of us have murderous feelings at some time / and are capable of killing others'
Yes we can have those feelings. Acting upon them however, is a completely different matter!

Re mental problems, I was flabbergasted to hear that the man in Norway who killed even more people was actually declared sane.........

Another senseless killing in the US apparantly he was on the FBI list and was also on no fly whatever that is, I assume he's not allowed on a plane but can walk into a shop and by hand guns and rifles. Until the rifle association out there does something nothing will change it disgraceful. Would like to point out out that knife crime in this country is the worst in the world.

Swimhome Until we realise that all of us have murderous feelings at some time and are capable of killing others
You really think that?
I have always based my life on the belief that the vast majority of the human race is innately good and wish no harm to their fellow human beings.

Obama is so impressive. His calm dignity and articulately expressed anger and sadness has all the hallmarks of a statesman. To think there's even a chance of Trump at the White House

Swimhome - I absolutely agree with you. I can't understand the preoccupation with murder and/or war. The TV schedules are seemingly saturated with them. I can't even understand the popularity of so-called harmless murder mysteries, like Midsomer Murders. It's not entertainment to me.

This is an absolutely shocking incident seemingly without rhyme nor reason. It's just hard to know what to say that hasn't already been said except that the sad truth is that if somebody anywhere wants to get hold of a gun then for certain they will. The difference is that in America guns are two a penny, whereas here it is a lot more difficult although not impossible. Even with legislation, changing a deeply ingrained feeling of entitlement to carry arms in the U.S. would probably take generations, plus the fact of a powerful gun lobby who of course will fight any changes tooth and nail. Individual states have their own 'regulations'? which makes it virtually impossible to impose any nationwide control. It's just shocking, but how to come to grips with it in the U.S. heaven only knows.

Will be 'interesting' to see how Trump reacts in the coming days. He was very quick to jump on the anti-IS bandwagon, but he also hates gay people. Hmmm.....

Don't be so dismissive of the possibility of mental health problems until we know more. A combination of mental health issues, narcotics, an extremist ideology and the availability of weapons is a toxic mix. Don't forget that these shooting sprees happen regularly in the USA and the perpetrators are usually young, disaffected while males.

The fact that a man with a history of mental instability and violence was able to buy and keep an automatic rifle, or indeed a gun of any kind, is chilling. Massacres like this will continue to take place as long as U.S. gun laws remain so lax.. and any change there is highly unlikely.

Until we realise that all of us have murderous feelings at some time and are capable of killing others we shall never get past the vicious circle of ideologies (of all kinds), hate and war. Humanity has a long way to go before we can ever hope for a peaceful coexistence with each other. We kid ourselves if we think we are very far down the path of decency and civilisation. If you don't agree, just ask yourself what the main topic of 'entertainment' is on TV around the world? Murder and war. Until we see how obscene this is there's not much hope for us.

Should say, because of his extremist ideology.

This "mental health problems" is rubbish. He was a hater. Because of his ideology.

Yes, but at least it isn't legal! We do try very hard to stop people having dangerous weapons.