We should think of Jo at the ballot box

The mind boggles..
We are anti semitic if we support one party,right wing supporters if we vote Brexit.
My eyes are spinning just trying to get my head round such 'logic'.

And leaving the EU will make all the 'big fat wealthy business people' suddenly become all altruistic and give up their profits to helping poor Africans?

Wouldn't that be nice Dramatictessa,They certainly deserve proper help,poor burgers, but no,I expect they are all as greedy.
I am very glad to be in a different camp to some of you.My dear friend would never be nasty,and she still gets upset when she speaks of her dad.

I am confused, what has leaving the EU to do with Africa!

You mean she gets upset about her father because he was subjected to racial abuse?

I am now totally confused ,

The Irish were also subjected to racial abuse when it came to finding somewhere to live and other things - the No blacks, No Irish notices in windows advertising rooms to let I found very offensive in the 50s/60s. It took a long time for that to stop. Ireland is in the EU and has no wish to leave - I fail to see the connection between the two. I would have thought remaining in was better on that score.

I was only five at the beginning of the 1950s and I can't say I heard anything about it at all.

However, I have heard a lot about it since about what happened.

Ireland is in the EU and has no wish to leave


October 2009
Voting has closed in the Republic of Ireland's second referendum on the EU's Lisbon Treaty - a vote that may decide long-delayed EU changes.
They previously rejected the treaty in a June 2008 referendum, by a margin of almost 7%. This time opinion polls suggest the Yes camp will win.
The Republic of Ireland is the only one of the EU's 27 member states to put the treaty to a referendum.

The Irish were told that they were happy in the EU

Perhaps if we backpedalled and abandoned the Lisbon Treaty more people would be happy to stay in the kind of EU that existed pre-Lisbon Treaty.

Still be free movement which is what a lot of people have been conned into thinking is a problem

A French Politician - think it was said he could be the next president - has said if UK leave, the camps and borders in Calais will come to the UK, I think this is fair

Ireland could very well be a problem. As I understand it, Irish citizens have a right to come to the UK without restriction and have a right to vote in elections. In fact, they have a right to vote in the referendum election. I wonder if they will retain their historic rights.

The border between Ireland and Northern Ireland hasn't been addressed. Will this be a physical border? As Irish citizens can move freely to the UK anyway, will they be allowed to come and go as they please? Ireland isn't in Schengen at the moment, but it might well join in the future. Presumably there will have to be border controls to regulate non-Irish EU citizens.

It seems that this could become a very 'leaky' border.

Jalima, it didn't become ilegal until 1964 , the sixties was quite a decade, the racial equality law, abortion made legal,homosexuality laws, I feel quite exhausted thinking about the energy I had then, a strange decade, JF.K. Bobby Kennedy. Dr King, Malcom X assassinated

Anniebach I have just read this thread and I have to say that I find your comment "Thank God I didn't vote Brexit. I would have to accept I was of the same mindset as the Britain First movement" a sweeping and insulting generalisation.

Whilst I think it is true that there is certainly a very unpleasant whiff of racism in the Vote Leave campaign, to suggest that everyone who votes Leave is a racist and is in some way a supporter of a vile group like Britain First is absolutely untrue.

I have agonised over the referendum vote and finally decided to vote Remain. It was not an easy decision and I am still unsure as to whether it was the right one.

My husband voted to leave and I can assure you he is not a racist. John Rees, one of the original founders of the People's Assembly and the Stop the War Coalition, wrote an article in which he said:

"... the dominant voices on both the Remain and Leave side are right wing or Tory. Both sides contain much racist argument, the predominant voices are pro-market.

"So the real differences only emerge if we examine the social forces behind the two camps.

"On the Remain side stand the main institutions of British and international capital: US imperialism, NATO, the G7 group of industrialised countries, the Bank of England, the overwhelming majority of large UK corporations, the majority of the Tory cabinet, the Financial Times, the Economist and the Guardian.

"The right wing forces on the Leave side comprise about half of smaller UK businesses, a minority of the Tory cabinet and about half of Tory MPs, UKIP, and the Murdoch and tabloid press.

"... Nigel Farage, and possibly Boris Johnson are verbally and in policy terms extreme opponents of migrants and refugees.

"But so are Cameron and Theresa May. May is running Prevent, one of the most racist government programmes ever to become law .... detention camps are EU policy now .... the "bodies for money" deal with Turkey is happening right now."

The very people that you have criticised in the past - the Blairites and those who have done everything to undermine Jeremy Corbyn - are the most committed pro-EU people.

My own feeling, however, was that the vision of those on the radical left who believe that leaving the EU will provide an opportunity to challenge the current neo-liberal/austerity agenda and create a fairer Britain, is an unrealistic one. Should Leave succeed, it will be the likes of Farage, Johnson, Duncan-Smith, etc. etc., who will set the agenda. Their track record does not suggest a desire to maintain or enhance policies that protect workers' rights, our public services or the environment.

I agree with a lot of what you say, Eloethan, but there are a few comments on here which I find offensive. I will not name names, but some who are on the Brexit side are particularly nasty. Singling Annie out is not fair.

I wonder if there is anyone who has already voted who wishes they had not been so hasty.

I have voted Leave by post.

I worry about the number of migrants who come to these shores. Of course we need migrants to fill the many jobs they take here such as in the NHS. It is the NUMBER of migrants that should IMO be restricted.

I have my niece staying with me on holiday, she is half Italian half English. She says the small town she lives in in Northern Italy is inundated with migrants who beg all around the town. They are nervous of the migrants who surround their home and have to keep the burglar alarm on night and day as they fear a break in.

I hope that Michael Gove becomes Prime Minister and sorts out the new look Britain.

Parts of the EU do suffer from the migrants - rural France had many Romanians - thefts etc did rise as usually it is a very safe crime free area - but it is the gipsy section of their society which was causing the problems. It does seem to have settled down again now - people are much more aware. But of course the great majority of the EU does not have a stretch of water to give some protection. It is the traffickers which should be targeted and given really heft prison sentences. Many of the illegal migrants to the UK are helped by UK traffickers.
Michael Gove could sort the UK out ? - he has managed to ruin the Education system and is fast doing the same to the Justice system so to give him a free hand with the rest of the country will really let him finish the UK off!!!
As much as I have never agreed with much Cameron and George have said I would go for them over Boris, Farage, Gove and IDS. The agreement about leaving the EU will have nothing to do with any of them - the UK will be TOLD what the terms will be by the other EU countries and there could well be a penalty to pay.

A special plea to all of us, let's defeat the intolerance , hatred,stories that has developed in our socity. Let's return to a more compassionale, loving a constructive Britain. Reject the divisions created by Mr Farage vision and get round those tables and fight hard for changes for a better EU from inside, instead of continuous snipping from outside.

Eleothan, just read the beginning of your post, will not read the rest.

I said - I, not we or all but - I would have felt aligned , seems some can express their opinions and feelings but not all , I stand by what I said - I as in me Annie would have felt aligned , I did not say anyone who voted with Brexit should feel this way, just how - I would have felt, how dare you and others attack me for expressing my own feelings on this murder . I named no one , how nasty some are here

Let's give Britain a stronger voice in Europe where we can fight for improved changes. Other wise we are going to spit the Nation by intolerence, fear and more hatred.

We need to make changes the British way is round the table rather than on the sidelines snipping

That has worked so well for the last 50 years Granddaughter[Lets give Britain a stronger voice in Europe]
Part of my reason for voting OUT

Britain has such a weak voice in Europe. Barely a whisper.

get round those tables and fight hard for changes for a better EU from inside, instead of continuous snipping from outside.
Sorry,but nearly half the population can't negotiate a happy family life,let alone unite the country.
Greed is the problem today,pure GREED.In or out,it's mostly nothing to do with race,almost everyone is racist to some degree.theres bound to be something you can't like about some people,human nature.Its when you hate a whole group that's the real problem,(like Hitler) not many people like that.So don't keep pulling the racist card,it's unfair and untrue.
People need to learn to appreciate the simple things in life,Yes,we could all get on together,but tolerance,patience,good Manners,thoughtfulness,kindness,all missing from at least half of the population,they can't even get on with their own families,so who are they to preach to me.

Apologies for the typo's, I had invited my 12 year old granddaughter to write a few words to which I intended to add a few more comments. I had not realised she had posted it, but I am proud of her words.

Can I ask all to take account of the words of God before voting simply
" Love thy Neighbour"

Just to upset some I am posting my thought on two threads also. Why not there is a repetition by so many posters.

Hate does not belong to any one political party. Hate does not predominantly belong to the far right nor the far left.

Hate belongs to ' the individual ' but when collectively
there is a joining of like minded ' individuals ' who display hate it is corrosive and easy to observe.

I'd like to know who people think are the far left on GN.
I read lots of stuff criticising those on the far left, particularly from posters like practical and obieone, but there is nobody on here I consider to be far left.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/mainstream-politicians-clueless-on-how-to-deal-with-migration-debate-says-jo-coxs-husband

An article from Jo Cox's husband about immigration.
Please read it.