Ok, we are out, what now?

We will have to decide something quick as watching the news the EU is in no mood to hang around. They seem very cross.

Where are the Brexiters?????????

Hanging their heads in shame? Hiding? They should be.

dj interesting blog link, but it's really only his opinion that they may not activate it. Watch this space - or article 50 notification! Oh dear, we have Outers coming round to eat this evening.........

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/25/a-coalition-in-the-national-interest/

This is what should happen next according to Richard Murphy, and Paul Mason.

I live in Hertfordshire and moved here from the east midlands about ten years ago. At that time, access and GP services were better here than they were where I had moved from. I can't make a comparison now but access is definitely not as good as it was. However, the shortage of GPs is not caused by the eu nor can it be solved by the eu. The problem is much more complicated and in part due to the restriction on places for medical students (there is no shortage of applicants) and to the fact that, historically, when it became clear that more women than men were entering the profession no-one planned for the inevitable reduction in available doctor hours. We should be training more.

However, in the meantime, without the free movement of labour, we will be free to recruit from round the world (including Europe) and will have the capacity to recruit more skilled migrants. The same goes for the universities. Universities have always shared knowledge and expertise internationally and I can't see that ending.

From Jackofkent's article:

'...it is entirely a matter for the Member State to choose whether to make the notification and, if so, when.'

The use of the term 'whether' seems to indicate that the government could choose not to act on the result of the referendum.

And...

'As long as the notification is not sent, the UK remains part of the EU.

And there is currently no reason or evidence to believe that, regardless of the referendum result, the notification will be sent at all.'

Is this too much to hope for?

If the numbers signing the petition are anything to go by there is a groundswell of feeling urging people to think again. It will now be debated in the House as there are in excess of 1,000,000 signatures and it only required 10,000.

Yes, interesting article, isn't it, Wilma.
The problem is now do we or do we not want him to invoke article 50?

It would be political suicide to do so if the economy is plummeting and jobs particularly In the city are threatened. I can't see BJ or Gove pressing the button.

Well someone has to. Although perhaps we never do and toddle along as is

The problems with the rich/poor divide and housing market in the uk are very complicated, and London and the South-east are out of synch with the rest of the country. However, is it not possible for something to be done to curb investment buying by foreigners?

I think the rest of the country has lost sympathy with the idea that anything which adds to the wealth of the City is a 'good' thing. Whatever happened to the trickle-down effect.

However, Elegran's original post, asked where do we go from here and that seems to have got a bit lost.

There's been a lot of talk about the impact on the decision on the young, our children and grandchildren, and whether we are inners or outers, we have a responsibility towards them. Let's hope the bickering will cease and we can move forward quickly to plan for the future, look to expand our markets worldwide, look to improve things for those of our people who have not benefitted from increased prosperity and improve the prospects of all of our children.

Personally, I think an early election, followed by a moderate labour or even a coalition government might be able to secure the best future. "Pie in the Sky"? Our net contribution to the eu is £8.5 bullion annually. That's a huge resource to put into the necessary steps to make us a united not divided nation.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/06/25/a-coalition-in-the-national-interest/

This could be where we go from here, sally.

I'm also thinking at the moment that the notification invoking article 50 will never be sent if only because most MPs don't want Brexit.

I am not hanging my head in shame and I think suggesting that I should is below the belt and unworthy of the people suggesting it. People who voted for Brexit had good reasons from their points of view. I don't know why I'm saying this because some people will just carry on being nasty about it. I can appreciate the Remain side; I just don't happen to agree with it. How about a bit of tolerance back, folks?

Elsewhere I've seen the argument that the EU will implode like the Soviet Union within twenty or thirty years if it carries on as it is doing.

Universities and research labs exchange information of course (usually) Sally but this is not the same as working together which involves spending a lot of money - which at the moment is funded by the EU.

Thank you durhamjen. Very worth reading the article and following the link to Paul Mason.

Dear Brexiteer. What we need you to do now.
Posted on June 24, 2016by frpip

So well done, first of all. You listened to the arguments, the same ones I listened to. You heard all the same information I did, you listened to the same debates that I did, but you voted to leave. And you won. I take that – it was a democratic process and sometimes in the democratic process you lose, as I have done.

The referendum has activated the political energies of people who haven’t been interested in politics for some time, so we are told, and many of them are like you, who voted to leave. So here’s the plea of the losing side to you now.

Firstly, don’t stop – don’t stop with your political passion and activism, because we need you now. We need you to be active, we need you to keep talking to the people who you trusted with this vote, and we need you to hold their feet to the fire. There will be a General election in 2020, if not before, and by then, you will know whether their promises are good or not. So make it clear to them that you are watching to see if they were telling the truth or not.

If you voted leave because of all the money which will now go to the NHS, make sure it does. If it doesn’t vote them out, because they lied to you.

If you voted leave because of all the immigration, and it turns out that the deals that they do mean immigration will not go down, then vote them out, because they lied to you.

If you voted leave because of all the Brussels Bureaucracy, and it turns our companies still have to conform with all brussels bureaucracy in order to be part of a trade agreement, then vote them out, because they lied to you.

If you voted leave because you were reassured that the economy would be as good as or better than it is now, and it turns out that the pound has fallen, and businesses have left, and people have lost their jobs, then vote them out, because they lied to you.

If you find your rights – maternity and paternity leave, breaks at work, sick pay, health and social benefits – are taken away, when we were told they would not, then vote them out, because they lied to you.

My feeling is that the issues will remain. Immigration will not go down, mainly because we don’t train people in this country, we import them, which creates an underclass of white working class and second and third generation immigrants who aren’t trained or educated for work. With fewer workers rights, that’s only going to increase, rather than diminish.

So please, if you find that they lied to you, vote them out. And vote for the people who will tell you uncomfortable, complicated truths, rather than easy, simple lies.

If they listened to everything we did then they wouldn't have believed the lies and we wouldn't be in this mess

I think this country will be on its uppers before we get the chance to vote them out

You wish

What now? Well for a start, where are Johnson, Gove, Fox and Farage - they made themselves very visible and vocal before the vote with their false promises. Nicola Sturgeon seems to be the only person in control and making a positive effort to get things moving. Here's hoping that everybody who voted Leave with such enthusiasm (and lack of any vision as to the dire consequences of their action) will now support with equal enthusiasm whoever is in charge of steering this rapidly sinking ship.

Billions of pounds of public money will have to be diverted into the administrative consequences of Britain leaving:
1. Trade talks will take years as all deals with EU and non-EU will have to be renegotiated
2. all EU laws will have to be reviewed to decide which laws and rights to keep/abolish
3. New systems for funding for example agriculture, fishing, desprived areas, Universities' scientific and medical research that has previously come from the EU - or perhaps these will be lost
4. all UK citizens will need to buy a new passport and driving licence as they are no longer entitled to EU ones
5. Massive amounts to be spent on immigration administration to set up border controls, points systems and deal with the applications for passports and residence permits - cannot rely on EU policies anymore
6. need to buy visas and additional insurance for holidays abroad

Many young people have taken for granted their rights to live and work in EU countries of study abraod with ERASMUS etc - these rights will obviously be lost or become a lot more bureaucratic.

Loss of jobs and loss of major investment in UK - financial services, science and medical research likely to move as will "gateway manufacturing" - ie companies that set up factories in the UK so that it becomes a "made in the EU product". Probably decline in business until the Brexit details are known

The UK may need to make arrangements for returning ex-pats who cannot afford to live without access to healthcare etc

Now What?
I suggest we use this wonderful website to organise a March on Parliament demanding they not go ahead with the exit from the EU.

It looks like us over 60's have let down the younger generation who want to stay and will be around to stay and many have listed to the lies of the Brexit who miss led some of us.

I'm game

Thanks Cold. You are so right. Leaving the EU is going to be far, far more expensive to the country than remaining. Why oh why did people not take more notice of your 6 points before they voted?

I think Article 50 will have to be enacted it is the wishes of a free and Democratic people... apparently. Who will pay if the Scots decide to have another Referendum?

Over one and a half million signed petition so far.