Show respect

Not overnight Ican.

Dislike understood, jane10. What would you suggest instead? I find "the masses" unlikeable because of its inherent disdainfulness. It seems to me there is an assumption in the use of phrases like it that most people are somehow inferior to a a group that is looking down on them. An assumption that people haven't enough gumption to be able to make decisions about who should govern them. An assumption, to use something Tony Benn said, that "a good king is better than a bad democracy".

I'm with him in thinking that a bad democracy is still better than a kingship or emperorship type government, which is what I think the EU is fast becoming if it's not there already.

I love Europe. The EU is not Europe.

Again, I totally agree with Ican. The disdain and arrogance of some people towards people whom they clearly consider beneath them in every respect is breathtaking! Do you believe in democracy or don't you? or is democracy only for the intellectual and chattering classes who of course know what's best for the poor, stupid moronic,racist xenophobic working class; an attitude I'd have been sent to my room for expressing when I was young by my deeply Conservative parents. Surely the language we use has moved on since then when expressing our disappointment and displeasure at being thwarted by our so called intellectual inferiors be they young or old?

Government is best left to the people with some brain cells nigglynellie. That's all.

Actually I wouldn't give a tinker's cuss for the poor stupid moronic xenophobic racist working class at the moment. Perhaps in a few days I may recover a bit of love for my fellow man. Give me time.

Jinglebellsfrock your mischief making is amazing.

It's a special skills she has, joelsnan. A hey ho shrug is probably the best response at this juncture.

You are spot on about believing or not in democracy, niggly. I'm beginning to think far fewer people believe in it than I had previously supposed (and hoped!).

Goodnight all

38% of the electortate voted to leave. Presimably those who didn't bother to vote were quite happy with things as they are.

It's the way I feel at this moment. So suck it up.

* Lucky* there was a rule which said 75% of voters needed to vote and there should be 60% voting for change to the status quo for a referendum to be valid. This is why at least one of the Irish ones failed a few years ago. There is a petition wanting a second referendum because of this - it passed the 100,000 within a few hours of being posted and the site crashed a few times!!

You are quite right Jane, I should have written the voting population. Apologies.

I have just seen a yoing woman on the local news who said she had voted leave. She has got up this morning and seen the effect of the vote - and now wishes she had voted remain. So apparently do the rest of her family. I hate referenda and particularly badly designed ones like this. Any referendum which asks for a decision which will basically change the way in which a country operates should NEVER have a decision point at 50%+1 - this is ridiculous. There should be a minimum turnout, possibly 70%, and at least a mjority of 60% - this gives a clear large majority of the country who want to change rather than this divisive result we have now. I don't know of any other major referendum that has been organised this way.

Is a democratic vote only acceptable if it gets the result you want? FGS no-one has died!! Suck it up and get on with life.

It won't be the life we thought we had. Its too sad to just 'suck up'! Read some of the posts from Grans now directly affected.

Feeling sad about the outcome of the Referendum but even more upset about the way people turn on each other and start to lay the blame for the country's ills on others. Reading correspondence on the Guardian website, there are many posters blaming 'the old people, the people who have had it easy with their cheap housing, generous pensions etc ' for voting OUT and not caring about the future of the young.
Some suggesting punishing the old -'take away their bus passes, free television licences and index-linked pensions'.
As somebody who worked hard to encourage people to vote 'IN' and know many other old people who actually did, I find it terribly depressing to be the target of so much hatred and blame.

it does seem tragic that so many people are googling 'What is the E.U.?' AFTER the referendum.

The problem is that after so many years of Tory cuts and the poor suffering, they are then asked a question which can be taken as "Do you like things as they are? or Do you want things to change?" Of course most of them want change. The fact that they have voted for something that will make the country poorer and hence their lives more difficult doesn't seem to matter.

oldgoat I read one of those anti-old folk rants on FB and a hurt reprimand comment from the poster's mother. Some people, and it's an increasing number among the young, cannot accept it when things don't go the way they want or have a different opinion to others.

We see it in sport, questioning decisions, referees attacked. Migrants blamed for 'taking our jobs' (often ones that nobody else wants). The older generation blamed for taking us out if the EU, bought up all the houses, have good pensions. Politicians slagged off constantly and even, in one tragic case, murdered.

There's a new attitude around in this country that is changing from respecting other people's right to hold a different view, from discontent to hatred and it's becoming more prevalent.

Sorry I fully understand young people, who have suffered greatly from the cuts and changes, who look at my generation and see people who were given free education, reasonably priced housing, good pensions and benefits and who seem unwilling to provide the same things for their children and grandchildren and who have now voted for action which will devastate their lives, finding this the last straw. I voted to stay in but I am shocked at the attitude of many of my generation who seem to believe all the rubbish they have been fed by UKIP and Farage. If I were a young person now I would be thinking of civil disobedience to show how disenchanted I was.And if you voted 'out' then at least admit you don't give a toss about young people or their opinions.

'And if you voted 'out' then at least you admit you don't give a toss about young people and their opinion'

What a load of judgmental, opinionated tosh.

And don't assume I voted 'out' either. As an educated, non-bigoted, savvy woman I am able to look at both sides of the arguement and discard all the posturing and misinformation thrown around by both sides.

It seems to me that many were not able to do that, otherwise they would adopt the attitude 'what's done is done, so let's get on with making it work' as has Elegran for example, whom I'm assuming from the Edinburgh statistics was one of the majority in that city who voted 'remain'.

But the majority of young people voted 'in' Anya and it is they who will suffer the most. I didn't say 'you' meaning anything personal (although you seem to have taken it as such) but meant anyone who voted out based on false information, outdated ideals and prejudice and without considering the effects for younger people. I think there are an awful lot of older people who fail to realise that the good life they have had has not been entirely because of their own efforts but also because of a supportive welfare state that is now seriously at risk, and their unwillingness to provide the same for younger people shocks me.
How is anyone going to "make it work"? You can't take the engine out a car and tell everyone it will go perfectly well if they push hard enough!

Yesterday some news reporter interviewed a woman living on benefits how she would be affected by Brexit.

She said something along the lines of 'how can it affect me when I had nothing to start with'

So much scummy fodder for the media, they must think all their birthdays rolled into one. Hysteria, and more lies to follow no doubt.

David Cameron offered us this referendum. People made a choice dependent upon their own life experience. It was a majority vote to leave, so therefore half of the population are thick eh?

I don't think so

Why the assumption that most young people voted 'in'? In fact, I made the same assumption myself but I have encountered several young people since the referendum result who tell me they voted 'out', some of them adding that they thought 'in' would win and were perturbed when it didn't. What do we make of that?