Being blamed

Poor old Tom Watson had to pack up his tent.

Anya it was not 52% of the population who voted to leave - it was 52% of the 72% who did vote -(less than 40% of the population) that is why it is a too small a percentage to be taken seriously. There should have been more rules put in place before the referendum as Ireland did - 75% turnout and 60/40% result. It was a badly thought out as they never believed Brexit would win.

Wrong Welshwife ....we cannot take into consideration those who did not choose to vote

You can look at statistics till the cows come home. I am not a statistic.

Did someone say you were

Anya since all the evidence was that an out vote would be hideously damaging to the fabric of our society, the economy, our place in the world and to the very survival of the UK, the onus should have been on those who wanted it to achieve the votes of at least 60% of those entitled to vote.

Cameron was an utter fool to allow this situation where so much damage can be caused by 37% of the electorate, many of whom were swayed by the empty promises and lies of the Brexiters.

And what percentage of each group actually voted?

There is a mix of people but the majority of younger festival goers are not from a council in estate in Plymouth (who are perhaps doing the jobs some believe to be beneath what their children should be doing), working in Tesco, flipping burgers.

They are the sons daughters of wealthy people, they are the Hunter Welly brigade

My DC are from Plymouth; we didn't live on a council estate, just in an ordinary semi in an ordinary road; neither do any of us own Hunter Wellies. They did pay their way through college and university working in supermarkets, waiting on tables etc.
They also went to Glastonbury (not this year though).

Wrong Welshwife ....we cannot take into consideration those who did not choose to vote
Quite right, everyone between the ages of 18 and 113 who was eligible to vote should have done so (OK, if Gladys Hooper decided not to vote because of her extreme age, that's OK with me!)

You can look at statistics till the cows come home. I am not a statistic.
Nonnie unfortunately they think we are

There are a lot of people who go to Glastonbury who don't come either from council estates or from the kind of estates where you

Come to think of it, those council estate dwellers don't all have the kind of jobs no-one else wants, either. Some of them are professionals with more training and qualifications than a lot of ex-Etonians.

And some of those in a large country estate live with a leaking roof and windows that let in draughts, where any child asking for tickets to Glastonbury will get the short and dusty answer.

x

Lost in transit " . . .the kind of estates where you need a Land Rover to get from the gate to the front door."

We live in a democracy. We were given the opportunity to vote as to whether or not we wished to remain a member of the EU. I voted to leave. I am not selfish, a bigot, racist or stupid. I exercised my right to vote the way I wanted just like everyone who voted to stay.

I wonder how all the 'stayers' who are so quick to insult those that voted to leave would feel if the vote had gone their way and they were on the receiving end of insults.

We bumped into some old friends yesterday that we haven't seen for a few years as they now live in France. I joked with them and asked if they'd been kicked out already. They said 'no' then asked how we'd voted; I voted to leave and Mr. S. who is 8 years older than me voted to stay. I asked them how they'd voted. They replied that they'd voted to stay because they live in France BUT if they'd still been living in the UK they'd have voted to leave.

There was a referendum, the stayers lost and the leavers won so let's just get over it and get on with it.

No, you're not Smileless. But I think a lot of 'em were. Thinking of the ones telling the immigrans to 'go home' and the ones who scrawled on the Polish owned building in London.

I mean, after they had won the vote.

If we'd all voted Remain we wouldn't be in such a mess Smileless2012. Can't you see that?

No. You can't argue against people using their democratic rights. So long as they have thought it out and do so without any unpleasant prejudice.

Thanks Jingl. I thought those that were telling immigrants to go home etc were awful and I find some of the comments being made by those that wanted to stay to those that voted to leave just as offensive.

Well I can see that we're in rather a mess Jane because of the immaturity on both sides of the campaign which appears to prevent a coming together, to work together and do the best we can for our country.

We were in a mess to begin with. Cameron came back with virtually nothing after his last negotiations with the EU. At the beginning of the campaign he said what ever the result he would stay as PM and do his best for the country. A couple of hours after the result was made known, he resigned.

What amazes me is the low turnout. Such an important decision to be made and only 72% bothered to vote.

The EU wants to make it difficult for Britain in the light of the result, the main reason being to deter any other EU members from holding a referendum of their own.

If the EU is such a wonderful organisation, why are they so worried that other member states may want to leave too?

The EU doesn't want to make it difficult for Britain. It just wants the UK to stick to the rules and not want to have their cake and eat it.
Leavers were told they would be able to have a free market without the free movement of people. They will not be able to, just like the remain group said.
Boris and Gove have been playing games with the public. Farage promised that the borders would be closed to immigrants. Lots of people obviously thought thast meant straight away. Now all three are trying to wriggle out of their promises. It's no wonder the mood is ugly.

jingle

If the EU is such a wonderful organisation, why are they so worried that other member states may want to leave too?
Quite!

What is happening with the Polish people is worrying and disgusting.
Poles are amongst our oldest friends and allies, going back centuries. The only time relations were cooler was nearly a century ago - that time from the left of UK politics.

If we'd all voted Remain we wouldn't be in such a mess Smileless2012. Can't you see that?
we are not all sheep

Switzerland and Norway were not able to get any trade deals with the EU without agreeing to free movement of people.

Why should the UK? It is a totally entrensic part of EU membership- and you just can't have one rule for one country, and another for all the others. Quite rightly so imho.

As said before, Switzerland has to pay massive fees to the EU for the privilege- and at the same time, NOT have any say or ANY representation in Brussels. Exactly as the UK will have when it leaves. And article 50 makes it clear that the UK will NOT be allowed to negotiate in any way shape or form once out. That was all clear from the very start. Have you read Article 50 that some of us have posted? Or was that too boring?

No, the EU doesn't just want us to stick to the rules. We have the right to invoke Article 50 when we're ready to do so and some, France in particular are pushing us to do so immediately.

The EU rules allow a member of the EU to leave if they wish to do so, so what rules are we breaking? I didn't think borders would be closed straight away and I don't want them to be closed but controlled.

I go to the States twice a year and have to have an ESTA to go. My son's in Australia and I have to apply for a visa to go and visit him. If we decided we wanted to retire there because he chooses to stay, we'd have to make an application and hope that we'd be accepted and to be accepted we'd have to fulfill their criteria.

We have to play by their rules so what's wrong with wanting those coming to Britain to play by ours. I don't want to have my cake and eat it, but I do want to be able to choose what cake I eat and when I want to eat it.

I listened to both sides of the argument and made my decision granjura. I didn't find Article 50 boring but find the inability of some who are unhappy with the result to accept the will of the majority, how ever small that majority may be, very boring indeed.

Oh how awful for you to be bored! Wish I could experience that luxury!

Switzerland recently voted to restrict Free Movement Granjura and is beginning to pay the price. Sounds like they are in big trouble with EU unless they change their minds.
My DH understands far more about economics than I do (comes of reading the Economist every week for about 3 decades maybe?). He's been explaining just how weak our post exit position will rem partly because we buy lots of things and "export" lots of services and not many goods . So if the UK tries to play tough by putting heavy tariffs on imports then the cost of our washing machines and mobile phones will go up considerably, while foreign countries can very easily restrict the access our services industries (mainly financial) have to their markets, without similar pain to consumers at their end. All of us puts us in an incredibly weak bargaining position. "We won't be in TTIP - we'll be shafted by something much worse".
What a bloody, pulpy mess we are in!
And who are the "sheep" precisely Jalima?