As the hysterical left weep into their lattes...

I do not think it's an insult. I use herbs and make potions all the time.

I'm going nowhere, Beammeupscottie, but thank you. I've had a little weep into my gin coffee, and am feeling much better now

dj, I'm going to keep an eye open for those covens. There used to be rumours that some met on the moors near here, but I always thought it was way too cold for that sort of thing.

The witches go back years, we used to have virtual Halloween parties and travel to them on our broomsticks, some even had GPS.

@Jalima

I don't even understand my own thought processes at times.

What I was trying to say is that there seems to be a chasm between those of us who say we feel sick about the result and those who advocate sucking up and seeing, getting over it or whatever.

A couple of other posters have expressed the same feelings that I have. It's really quite difficult to explain and I'm not sure I know why I feel as I do. It's almost like a bereavement. It seems senseless, unexpected and a loss. It takes time to come to terms with what's happened.

I've never felt like this after any election. It should be just a political decision, but somehow it feels much more. I've been a committed Europhile all my adult life and part of my job teaching languages has always been to open doors, because I believe understanding other cultures places a mirror in front of the way we think about ourselves.

Being told to get over it, etc is quite hurtful, although I don't suppose posters see it like that, because they don't understand how much the ideals of the EU are part of some people.

Sorry if that sounds 'luvvie'. I do understand how people think that the EU has blighted their job opportunities, etc. I don't hold with ideas of sovereignty and 'taking back control' because I think they're meaningless soundbites in practice. I think all of us have been manipulated in some kind of strategy game by the rich and powerful and I don't believe leaving the EU is the answer. Ironically, I've also spent years bleating on about how there should be more investment in 'forgotten' communities. Ah well!

Dd I honestly didn't see anything in that article which applied to thee and me. Unless you are a theatre director/fashion designer/artist/or literary critic. I think LP was poking fun/being ironic about the very vocal "culterati" who are in many cases going OTT at the referendum result - for very different reasons to those of us who are more concerned with the economics or social aspects rather than accusations that our DGC will not have access to Europe in the way their parents have.
Sorry, tried to finish that sentence but somehow it kept going.
You do not come across as a "champagne socialist" indeed I cannot think of any on GN , so without trivialising the consummate unholy MESS Cameron has got us into, I do not think LP was aiming her criticism at us, rather the dahlings of the South Bank, the cool overpaid hipsters of Hoxton.
Nor do I think thatbags had any ulterior motive in providing a link to an ironic article , just a refreshing change from the doom and gloom of today's newspapers.

That is such a good post Daphnedill and expresses just how I feel as well.

@Alea I'd already strayed from the OP, so I don't associate myself with 'luvvies', but I can see how some people would accuse me of being in the same camp.

Your post goes a good way to describe the feelings in this house at the moment, Dd. We are shutting the door on a lot that was good about the EU and it is a final, locking of the door behind us.

Good post DD, which very much reflects how we feel. It is quite hard for us because we have no one to discuss it with here, though I was surprised last night at my keep fit class about how much detail my French friends knew - they were all talking about the petition, the people who said on TV that they voted as a protest and didn't want it to happen, the political fall-out etc. Lots of sympathy and support too, which was nice.
I get angry when I read posts on here saying that everyone must pull together and make this work. That is down to the young people out there working in professions, business, industry, commerce etc. Did they want this?
In the spirit of pulling together will people happily accept cuts to pensions and increased cost of food and fuel? We shall see.

No, the 48% shouldn't just pull together to "make it work". Backing another entitled old Etonian to lead us into goodness knows where, (he doesn't know, which is the scary thing.) We must still voice our opposition to insularity, inequality, selfishness and racism, and those that want their country back to the 1930s can get on with it.

My thoughts exactly suzied. As more and more of the detail emerges I think even the most determined exiters must be wondering just what has been unleashed.

Possibly the intervention by the Poles now saying the EU should have listened to the British and should have offered more to David Cameron, will make the changes needed to satisfy both sides of the argument. If it's not too late already for supporters within the EU to help us out of this fine mess. Then pulling together to put this behind us would be possible.

I keep banging on about it but the only mandate that any government has as the result of this farce was that the result was to leave the union, by a small margin. Knowing what we do know it is likely that the country is split 50/50.
Democracy demands that this is taken into account. You cannot ignore the wishes of those who voted to remain.
I feel just as dd feels with the additional emotion of fury.
Fury at the lies
Fury at being told I was exaggerating
Fury at the racism and xenophobia this has unleashed
Fury at the chaos
Fury that there is no plan
Fury that the elites will once again be the winners
Fury at the thought of a far right Tory government we may have to endure
Fury at yet more cuts the poor will have to endure
Fury that all this could and should have been avoided.
Fury at the vast economic cost which could have been used for good
Fury at yet again using tax payers money to bail out the bankersy
And on and on

Nasty, I'll tell you what is nasty. I bunch of self-seeking Politicians trying to hold England back so they can have more control.

I couldn't have put it better WW. Some people here seem to think this is not debate. The freedom to say just how you feel is the essence of debate. These pages on GN have been some of the most thought provoking and measured of any I've read since last Thursday.

I'm not sure what those who think this has been bitter and acrimonious have been reading elsewhere, but the input here has been informative and articulate as far as I'm concerned and that includes some of the major newspaper and media sites.

whitewave and daphnedill together your posts sum up how I feel as well. Thank you. I'm not sure LP is right, there may be a group of "luvvies" who are being very vocal, but perhaps we should be grateful to them, for providing a public voice to counter the very well publicised right wing machine. As for the working class right wing it has always existed, but hopefully we will as in the past unite to fight it. It is 80years this October since the Battle of Cable Street, I hope we are not heading for the same.

Are you saying you are a witch durhamjen?

whitewave - the elites have lost some power, may be a lot of it.
economic cost - after a while, it will be better

Ginny42, informative and articulate fine, throwing insults because a person is upset, angry, annoyed, scared etc, not fine. Dont speak is the much better thing to do, if you cant manage to do it civilly

What a reassuring run of excellent posts! You express my feelings very accurately DD et al. Thank you.

I too am a Europhile wirh an interest in langauges (3 of which I did at A-level)- I just think the EU has lost its way and overstepped its brief.

I am sorry that for many the unhappiness about the result goes deep. I guess that was going to happen either way, however the vote went. I too agree that the vote is hardly valid as the margin is so microscopic. And the referendum was set up for all the wrong reasons.

I share the revulsion at the xenophobia that has been unleashed, which is chilling. And I am also sad about the intolerance towards those who voted leave, with the bland and false assumption that everyone who felt the EU was going astray is a racist.

It is a sorry situation. I too feel angry - but towards those who instigated the referendum in the first place. Their cynical vote-catching ploy is sickening.

Whitewave I agree completely. The Today program speaking interviewees and others have just pointed out that it is going to take years to sort out this mess.

This is going to be a difficult issue for both left or right leaning voters. It will be horribly expensive to the government and to us all, as the pound has collapsed and prices of everything will rise.

The B*****y government has not thought at all about how to sort this out and has no contingency plans.
At least we had Mark Carney the Candadian governer of the bank of England who did expect this and had planned.

What really worries me is the complacency of the Brexit group who have just not given a thought to these expensive consequences and have blethered on about trivialities and getting their Blue passports back. Think about your pensions and savings you will have a lot less to spend.

This is going to be one very expensive mess that will effect our economy for the worse for years.
Whether you were a Brexiter or a Remainer.

daphne thank you, you have explained your thought processes very clearly now!

Yes, although I am not extreme left and the campaign of the 'luvvies' annoyed me intensely (who can forget Geldof's contemptuous gestures towards the fishermen?) I am extremely anxious about the future but hope and pray some progress can emerge from the shambles.

I don't trust the politicians to lead us through this and hope we have enough trusted financial and legal brains to advise them

Geldof was not contemptuous to the fishermen He pointed out the hypocrisy of Farage who did nothing to help the fishermen

@Jalima

You're welcome.

I'm not a huge fan of Geldof, but I understand from what he said that he was targeting Farage. Rachel Johnson (Boris' sister, who was with him on the boat) agreed.

My feeling is that Farage exploited the fishermen. The truth is that Farage himself was on the EU Fisheries Commission and did zilch. UK fishermen actually had a reasonably good deal from the EU, especially after the discard rule was abolished (thanks to the TV chef, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall not Farage).

It was the UK government which awarded quota licenses to the super trawler companies rather than the traditional trawler fleet, which has much smaller boats. Some fishermen themselves sold their own quotas to the big companies.

Snap, ab. Crossed post.

This is what luvvies did for fish

www.fishfight.net/

Jalima, we were saying that about the fishermen throughout the campaign, but no one listened to us. The news coverage was totally one sided and didn't explain what Geldof was protesting about.