Brexit watch, round 2

Do keep up with yourself, Ana.

You suggested you KNEW they were not all that bothered by immigration quotas.
When daphne asked why did they vote leave if not to restrict immigration, you then said you didn't know why they voted to leave.
How could you know they were not bothered by immigration yet not know what they were bothered about?
Sorry, but you do not make sense.

It won't make any difference to the free movement of people from Ireland either. From memory, they make up about 10% of all immigrants. There's been an agreement since about 1923 and leaving the EU will make no difference.

Ana, You've obviously spoken to these people about the referendum. They said it wasn't about immigration. It seems a bit strange that you just left it like that without discussing any positive reasons.

As I've written, I only know two people who voted Leave. I don't agree with their reasons, but at least I know what the reasons were.

Except, roses that Boris wanted and promised a points based system if people voted to leave, and it now could mean a split in Brexit.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-mays-officials-rule-out-points-based-immigration-system-as-not-an-option-risking-cabinet-a7226041.html

That could, of course, be what Theresa May wanted all along.
What a schemer!

'Mr Johnson, now Mrs May’s Foreign Secretary, regularly expressed support for a PBS as he travelled the UK on the Brexit campaign bus. International Trade Secretary Mr Fox made the system one of the first policies of his Tory leadership bid.

International Development Secretary Priti Patel, Transport Secretary Chris Grayling and Environment Secretary Andrea Leadsom have all said such a system could help the UK better manage the inflow of people.'

That's quite a lot of the cabinet in favour of one.

I can't remember the reasons people gave for voting to leave the EU. I do know immigration didn't feature at all.

I refuse to be bullied - do stop hectoring the occasional Brexit voter who dares to put their head above the parapet on this thread.

I only know one, daphne, and I only know that because his daughter told me she wasn't speaking to him.
They are now, though, and it wasn't because of immigration, which is good because he's an immigrant himself!

It's quite fun, Ana. We remainers have to have some fun in our lives, you know.
It's fun watching May dismantle the Brexiteers' dreams, watching Fox and Davis and Boris saying something and May saying the opposite.
No single market now whatsoever.
Apparently it took Greenland three years to separate from the single market, and it was only bothered about fish!

Didn't TM dismiss a points based system when she was Home Secretary?

I was out campaigning and spoke to hundreds of people.
Leave voters often gave immigration as their reason. Including the chap who said it was going to stop the illegal immigration and the elderly woman in a remote village (immigrants? probably only the Chinese takeaway family) who thought immigrants were coming here to rape and rob.
Others were a little more oblique "I can't get my daughter into the same school as her sister. I think it may be because other people may be getting the places." (I assumed she meant immigrants - which are likely in her area to be the children of mature students from the middle east).
Many did not want to discuss but were distinctly shame-faced in body language.
The ones who did not mention immigration mentioned things like being bossed around by Germans, bureaucrats etc. or the or the amount of money paid. I'd guess a rough 50/50 split between the immigration camp and the rest.

It all does have a rather horrifyingly comic air. As they say, you couldn't make it up. Those who campaigned for Brexit clearly didn't expect to win, had (and have) no real plan of how they want Brexit to develop and hypnotically repeat the mantra 'Brexit is Brexit' with the extended 'Brexit is leaving Europe' ( well, yeah, and....?). Rabbits in headlights come to mind.

Wouldn't we love to be flies on the wall when Fox, Davis and Johnson get together to talk about this. I bet there is a lot of swearing.
I don't think anyone buys the playing cards close to chest spin.
What they would like is an opportunity to communicate with the rest of the EU and put feelers out about what might or might not be possible in terms of an agreement, before they start the 2 year exit procedure. But it is unlikely they are going to get that, although there are presumably some back-channel conversations going on. The only given is that at the end of 2 years the UK would no longer be a full member.

It is interesting (and I personally cheer) that we will not have a PBS. What is even more interesting to me is what could be done to, as Mrs May appears to want, to control actual numbers. Does anyone know of countries with such schemes or suggested schemes of this type?

The man in charge of the EU side of Brexit has been announced - cannot remember his name - will not agree to even meet any UK negotiators! Prior to the vote it was said that the other countries will make a committee who will decide the manner and conditions of the UK leaving and UK will have no say - but I expect that was scaremongering too.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Have you got the right person rose? Otherwise May has appointed a Labour bod to the cabinet

Don't forget though that Priti Patel early on I. The campaign promised the Indian subcontinent they would all have the right to come to UK. Also I saw a report over the weekend that the Indian Prime Minister has said he wants free visas for all his country if there is to be free trade.

We had something similar to a points based system with the "highly skilled migrants" scheme, introduced by the Blair government. If you were an Indian couple and you both had a certain level of useful qualifications you were given "indefinite leave to remain" in the UK. May got rid of it in her chase to reduce net migration.
I think the problem with a points based system might be that it is a bit of a blunt instrument and could lead to unintended consequence. Say you get a point for living in a commonwealth country and a couple of points for a computer science degree (given this is a shortage area currently). Two years later you realise you are letting in 50k computer graduates from India and Nigeria per year. Which is more than you might have wished for.
Another problem might be discrimination - but we already do that in our arrangements with Australia and NZ, giving work visas to the under 30s.
Fascinating reading if you want to put your feet up - the stats of who currently comes in, why and where from. www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2015/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2015#visas-1

I'm sure we can depend on our PM to solve the problem of how immigration can be controlled as she did such an outstanding job in reducing non-EU immigration as Home Secretary

Good lord if the post from Rosesared get's deleted then I wonder how and why some remain?

It depends who is on duty at HQ when the post is reported, POGS Some seem to delete anything that someone reports, others won't delete things that are really brutal.

Well I guess they are inbetween a rock and a hard place Elegran but there does seem to be an appetite by some to report lately.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think gransnet is totally self moderating and that HQ do actually delete posts that break the guidelines without them being reported.

I will correct you Tegan as it certainly isn't!

I expect djen got a few people to complain..... God knows why.