Brexit watch, round 2

A decision can be 'democratic' and still be bonkers, and laughed at by the rest of the world.

I also don't think the Remainers are speculating. We are taking an interest in what is happening, in what the practicalities are looking like, and what shape Brexit is likely to take. And talking about it.

I don't really see why it's not democracy in action. Even if people just voted to Leave on gut instinct, or because they don't like Ms Merkel, or whatever, they're still entitled to vote.

I wonder how many ordinary people could actually articulate why they voted to Remain, if they just wanted things to stay the same and/or were scared of change?

Obama will have completed the maximum time for any U.S. President at the end of the year.

Today in the French Senate the Foreign Minister was speaking about the damage the Brexiters vote has already done to the EU, France, the World and mostly to Britain itself. He also mentioned talking Nicola Sturgeon about a possible second Referendum for Scotland.

And in case anyone missed it today the A16 around Calais is totally blocked by lorries and agricultural machinery - both sides of Calais- in protest at the Jungle camp and the hauliers and locals say it will continue till the camp is gone or there are definite plans.

Last week I also saw that there are over 800 unaccompanied children living in the Jungle and worrying numbers of them are disappearing and no- one knows where to - it is thought possible they are being abducted by paedophiles or taken to work in the sex trade.

How many Brexiteers on here said that we should have a points based system like Australia?
You're not going to get it - Theresa May says so.
Hope you are feeling a bit let down or irritated.

No. Immigration wasn't on most Brexiters' agendas.

How do you know ana?

I read it.

And it isn't very nice to hope that others feel let-down or irritated just because they didn't vote the way you did, durhamjen.

Maybe not on the agenda of GN Brexiters but that was certainly the first and main reason most of them gave when asked - and even since the vote - on Today programme this morning those interviewed about the results were still quoting stopping immigration as the main benefit.

It was certainly the only reason given here in deepest rural Shropshire when I was delivering leaflets - and we all know how overrun this area is with immigrants!

I could certainly articulate it, Ana, and I have - many times. In any case, remaining was the 'status quo'. It's much harder to defend that position, especially as nobody ever claimed it was perfect, rather than plunging the whole country into the unknown.

Oh well, I bow to your greater knowledge - it must be just the people I know who voted Leave that weren't at all bothered by immigration quotas.

David Davis doesn't want to give away the government's negotiating position.
In other words, he doesn't know anything yet.

Ironic, isn't it, Badenkate? Some of those areas with the most xenophobia have the fewest number of immigrants. It's been the same in Germany, where the anti-immigrant AfD beat Merkel's CDU into third place. That area of Germany has a very low number of immigrants from any country.

Indeed, Ana, I only know two people who voted Leave, but they weren't representatve of the whole country, as we know. So why did the people you know vote Leave, if not to restrict immigration?

You are articulate and well-educated, daphnedil, I was talking about those with fewer advantages/skills.

@dj

Watching Parliament now. I can't remember which MP said 'We know Brexit menas Brexit. We now know that Waffle means Waffle'. Too true!

I am not hoping they feel let down or irritated because they didn't vote the way I did.
I am hoping they feel let down and irritated because they are not going to get what they want from Theresa May.

Davis also said that you do not negotiate with your cards face up. He's mixing up negotiating with playing poker.
He also told Peter Bone that he must have been a good seducer in his youth, but he wouldn't be seduced by him.
An unfortunate day to come out with that.

Oh dear, am I supposed to go and ask them all now?

I don't think I will, actually. There is no chance whatsoever of any reason/s being given a fair hearing on this thread.

'Prime Minister Theresa May has said one of the main messages she has taken from the Leave vote is that the British people want to see a reduction in immigration.

She has said this will be a focus of Brexit negotiations. The key issue is whether other EU nations will grant the UK access to the single market, if that is what it wants, while at the same time being allowed to restrict the rights of EU citizens to live and work in the UK.

Mrs May has said she remains committed to getting net migration - the difference between the numbers entering and leaving the country - down to a "sustainable" level, which she defines as being below 100,000 a year. It is currently running at 330,000 a year, of which 184,000 are EU citizens, and 188,000 are from outside the EU - the figures include a 39,000 outflow of UK citizens.'

We don't need to know from your acquaintances, Ana. So long as Theresa May knows that it was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, that'll do.
I have a feeling she will not be able to do any better than Cameron did, particularly as she was the Home secretary whose laws built up those figures. Then she'll be out for the same reason.

By the way, you did tell daphne that you knew they weren't concerned about immigration quotas, so why should you have to go and ask them all?
You weren't making that up, were you?

So why did the people you know vote Leave, if not to restrict immigration?

That was the question I was referring to, durhamjen. Sorry you failed to catch me out.

'Oh well, I bow to your greater knowledge - it must be just the people I know who voted Leave that weren't at all bothered by immigration quotas.'

Have you forgotten that you wrote this?

Yes, I know I wrote that...

daphnedill then asked So why did the people you know vote Leave, if not to restrict immigration?

To which I replied:

Oh dear, am I supposed to go and ask them all now?

Do keep up, durhamjen, this is very tedious.

It doesn't matter if there is a points based system, or some other system.We do need immigration, but don't need or want a system that allows for unknown quantities of people from all Eu countries.

Going by the figures, over half the net migration are from outside the EU , so even though we have free movement of eu citizens, presumably we've always had control over those from outside the EU? So how come these figures are so high? These are the ones the then Home Secretary, Theresa May, had complete control over? Hmm, so leaving the EU would make a difference here? Cynical? Moi?