Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

One thing I will say is that I do not agree with the widely held view that Jeremy's main body of support comes from young people who are idealistic, anarchic, and looking for a revolution. I think we were that kind of younger generation in the 1960's and 70's but I think the younger generations after ours have been very different - far more serious, disaffected, feeling (perhaps rightly) that they have been dealt a bad hand by the generations before them. I think it has been interesting to see how Jeremy Corbyn's brand of politics has appealed to them.

Having said that, and I can't back this up with any figures, I really believe that a large proportion of Jeremy's support comes from older people who have felt disenfranchised for 20 years and more. I am told by a momentum member that this is the main demographic of the local momentum group.

Flippin' heck anniebach , never thought you'd make me laugh but your comments about a cringe-making anthem for JC' s arrival at the tv debate really made me laugh...'We'll follow the old boy wherever he wants to go '??!
But seriously, even though I'm not that politically motivated I do agree that behind that deceptively grey little man, there is a massive 'trot lot' with their own 'anti-Britain, anti everything that's reasonable' agenda. There is a hard core of 'em on this forum....strangely some who have never posted before but wriggling out of the woodwork. They are obviously ' newbies' because they are totally ignorant of your political back history. The words 'grandmother',' 'sucking' and 'eggs' spring to mind.
Rock on Annie.... Respect!... from a Tory!!

And meanwhile there is no credible opposition - what a mess indeed.

nightowl most of these people criticising Corbyn but would never vote labour are intelligent enough to recognise that we have to have a credible opposition. And we are not going to get that with this excuse of a 'leader'. Theresa May has demonstrated she can wipe the floor with him.

I was brought up by a Labour DF and I would like to know what he would make of JC.
Certainly DB, also staunch Labour, is deeply mistrustful of him and his close associates. However, as he will never vote anything but Labour, I feel a lot of people would do the same in a GE.

night owl, my criticism , - and I voted and canvassed for him and defended him on this forum - is simple because he has let me down badly. Taking a holiday during the Brexit campaign, refusing to debate with other parties, his treatment of the MP undergoing cancer treatment, his silence when one of his MP's was being aggressively heckled.

And now I have learned that whilst decent labour members were slogging their guts out in the eighties he was plotting against us and fighting to keep the likes of Hatton in the party, running the plot from his home. I cannot recall feeling such anger as I do for this man , difficult because it goes against my Christian beliefs , but to support those who wanted to deselect Frank Field , who hurt Jennie Lee by trashing Tribune, he has betrayed good, decent people . Did you fight in the eighties Nightowl? Have door after door slammed in your face ? What about extending a hand to a voter in greeting , then after the hand shake have them wipe the palm of their hand on their coat ? Did you join the miners on the picket line? Do not ever expect s kind word from me about this traitor

jalima Same here with my OH. He hates the Tories with a deep and utter loathing but he really doesn't know what he's going to do.
Only today he received an invite to a BBQ put on by the local Labour Party. I said "ooh, that's good, we can get a feel of what people are saying" looked at the date, and buggeer, we are taking our GS away .

I'm afraid it's just that kind of post willsmadnan, about 'trots' behind the support for JC and the 'hardcore of 'em on this forum' that makes me feel it's not worth posting on this thread. It is so insulting to those of us with a different view to write us off as 'anti Britain, anti everything reasonable'. I wouldn't dream of saying most of the conservative supporters on the forum are right wing fascists so why is it ok the other way round?

Thank you willsmadnan, respect from an honest Tory is worth more than anything from a trot

Annie I accept that those are your reasons and obviously I do not have the inside knowledge to be able to refute them. You probably have sources that I can't have access to. I do think he has been and is grossly misrepresented by the media, so that it is impossible for the general public to form an objective opinion of what he is about. All I can say is I am still willing to give him a chance, to accept what he said about wanting to work with colleagues of all opinions within the party, which those colleagues have now made impossible.

I don't accept petra that Teresa May wiped the floor with him. I think she came across very badly, and showed herself to be quite a nasty piece of work. And I don't say that just because I'm not a conservative voter. There are some conservative politicians I respect, she is not one of them.

And now I will bow out having said more than it was probably worth saying.

Inside knowledge isn't needed if you were an active party member in the eighties nightowl. The press doesn't sway me, never did with my support for Kinnock or Brown and they had s fsr rougher time than Corbyn

I wish the people who are posting about needing a Labour party that moves to the right would take a long hard look at what the conservatives have done. They have effectively colonised the middle ground and if not in actual policy in the language and rhetoric they use have painted themselves as a caring party. For example they now discuss equal opportunities, social justice and many other ideas that would once have been an anathema to a Conservative (and possibly still are). Read Theresa May's acceptance speech. It will not just be difficult for a more right leaning Labour party to gain power it will be virtually impossible. Why would anyone vote for a party that is indistinguishable from the one already in power? I know that the more politically knowledgeable will say "oh but they don't mean it and the Labour party really does" this is sophistry and not apparent to ordinary people. Unless they offer a real politically different alternative the Labour party will become irrelevant.

They need to offer something which is fit for purpose for today's world, though.
People have moaned for long enough about the Tories; surely there must be a place for the Labour Party without lurching to the extremist left?

Unfortunately even the Trades Unions seem to be becoming a parody of themselves.

Varian - "I do not believe that most British people are extremists who divide into right wing Tories or Corbynites. This is only a construct of the media which loves confrontation and hates the very notion of co-operation."

Well said Varian, and one of the most pertinent points on any political thread.

Just as we are saying many moderates of the left do not want to associate with hard left ideologies, and revolutions, many on the right have no association with capitalism, rich bankers or money-grabbing CEOs. Just as the Labour party has moved on, so has the Conservative party and many many people really cannot identify with the extremes of left or right wing politics.

Most people tend to be centre left or centre right and want what is important to them to be important to the politicians they elect too. As you wrote, the smears and divisions and extremes tend to be a construct of the press/media.

I see Corbyn as a decent bloke, but a hangover from past times. I don't think he should stand down though. In many ways the Labour party needs a good shake up, and he's providing it. It will be interesting to see how it evolves once the leadership fiasco has been settled.

The Labour Party is irelevent with it's leader. There will be no labour government for years Trisher. The country will not vote for a far left party and Labour isn't going to gain power with a far left leader

Anniiebach could I ask you if Tony Benn was part of the group in the 80's that was plotting from Jeremy's home to keep 'the likes of Hatton'?

I'm genuinely intetested, but of course you don't have to answer.

The labour party hasn't moved on it has gone back thirty years

.nightowl, I don't know who was in .corbyns home , I do know Benn supported a far left party at that time . It was a dirty time in the party because we had to cope with the trots , Benn wasn't as far left as Corbyn though

But anniebach, there are Labour supporters who suspect Watson's "Trotskyism" insults have been twisted by those on the right of the party.

The SW advice is to wear the 'Trotsky'rebuke as a badge of pride.

I think that illustrates just how divided the left is. Can the various factions ever pull together again?

The Labour party is currently just plain irrelevant at the moment Annie and I don't think the voters will split the hairs you do; they will blame the whole party for their pettiness and in fighting.

If Labour is in the wilderness then it will be as much down to those opposing Corbyn as it is to him. So much for the voters - parties are still not listening are they?

Gross misrepresentation by the media.

I keep reading that on here. In what ways do people think he is being misrepresented?

I spoke to someone last night who probably has never voted Labour in her life. Her view? She thought Labour voters should support Corbyn as has has a large number of ordinary voters supporting him.
I did a sort of double take as it was her saying it, but as she doesnt know that much about the inner workings of the Labour party in general, I could see where she was coming from. Perhaps other non Labour voters and those Labour voters who dont get too involved in politics generally, might be thinking like that too?

Dsy6, some will never believe criticism of Corbyn . The party has pulled together more times than it has battled but this time is different, threating to deselect good centre labour MP's etc. what I don't understand is Corbyn supporters here can forget the battle with the fsr left, the disastrous election result, the battle to free the party of trots, the fourteen years it took to come back. I so want a labour government but I truely believe this is not possible . I am on the left - not far left - I am willing for the party to move towards the centre if it means we win. What good is 14 years in oposition? Who will feed, house, educate? Do you really believe middle England will vote for a far left party?

I agree obieone,

Gracesgran who is blamed for loss of elections is nothing compared to losing elections whilst poverty gets worse. I may be an unusual lsbour member but I don't give a damn now who leads the party , I care about winning an election, people are suffering, I have no respect for Corbyn he knows the history of the party yet he is willing to cause even greater harm