Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Gracesgran, I entirely agree. The demise of Labour is all to do with the in-fighting of current Labour MPs, which came about because the party lost its way and wasn't winning elections.

Something had to give, and the emergence of the far left, a reaction to Blairism, isn't really surprising.

I disagree, it's all to do with the majority of labour MP's knowing the true Corbyn not the tv Corbyn we are shown couldn't accept a leader who would lead them into the wilderness years .

Day6, do you really believe Corbyn can win over middle England ? Remembering we have lost Scotland and will lose over thirty seats come the boundary changes , plus middlecenglandcarecalready won over by May and UKIP is targeting labour heartlands

Momentum can win the court case tomorrow and have the new members be granted a vote for the leadership contest , they hope to reach a million supporters , it will take fifteen million to get a sniff of number ten , can Corbyn win fifteen million votes?

Just watching C4 news, do Corbyn supporters think the selling of militant newspapers among the crowd waiting for Corbyn to arrive is innocent and is no way connected to trots infiltrating the party?

Anniebach Your continued ranting that Corbyn is "not decent" "a trot", "a traitor", etc., etc., is music to the ears of those on this thread who have no regard whatsoever for the Labour Party and who think "Socialism" is a dirty word. You are joining the likes of people who describe him as "a wimp", "a wally", "a hobo", etc. etc., and refer to his supporters as the "trot lot", "anti-Britain, anti-everything that is reasonable". That isn't political debate or a civilised analysis of policies - it's just character assassination.

We should be uniting to highlight the sheer hypocrisy of Theresa May in putting herself forward as some sort of saviour of the "working classes". But it is you who, with the constant applause of many people on this thread who are not Labour supporters and some of whom identify themselves as Conservative supporters, are constantly attacking Corbyn and those who believe he offers at least some hope of providing a real alternative to Conservative austerity policies which have destroyed vast swathes of public services, sold off valuable assets at knock-down prices and made the poorest and most vulnerable pay for the greed of the richest and most powerful.

Labour has been losing votes in Scotland for several years now and it is widely believed that this is due to a rejection of austerity policies. Labour made some mildly disapproving noises about austerity but when it came to voting, most of its MPs acquiesced. Corbyn is one of the few people who voted against austerity policies.

You describe yourself as "left" but not "far left" - what do these two terms actually mean to you and which of Corbyn's policies do you think are "far left" and not in keeping with Labour principles?

I think it was you that referred to Labi Siffre's song "So Strong" and said that he was referring to the then situation in South Africa. In fact I heard him talking about it in an interview fairly recently and he said that although it was widely thought to be referring to apartheid - and that he understood why and had no objection to that - he had in fact been inspired by his experiences as a gay man when writing the song.

Please could you show me where most Labour MPs have acquiesced on austerity policies. I've looked at the voting records of about a dozen Labour MPs and it doesn't appear that they have. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them to defeat the government. Labour will have to gain about 100 seats in the next parliament to make any difference. Like many, I can't realistically see that happening.

Eloethan well said .

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html

For daphnedil. Of course some of them (Owen Smith) have now changed their minds. I believe he is claiming to have a good record of fighting the Tory cuts over the last year. Well bully for him, some people (Jeremy Corbyn) have done that all along.

Eleothan, so me being angry discovering Corbyn fought to keep the likes of Hatton in the party is attacking the Labour Party? Me saying he is not a good leader is attacking the Labour Party?

When have I accused Corbyn of being anti British? Shall I say John Stonehouse was an honest man because to say otherwise is attacking the Labour Party?

You seemed thrilled Corbyn has given you some hope, I want a party leader who can give hope.

The leader of the socialist party was interviewed last night, they want to join the party, you remember when they formed the socislist party ? When they reformed after being banned from the party when they were the militant party. Remember them?

You carrying in praising a man who will not lose the next election but may quite probably not even be able to form an official oposition party .

Do not lecture me ,nhang on to your 'some hope' and leave me to post my own opinions on a man who led a fight to bring back Militants into the party.

You can applaud the Arthur Scsrgills , the George Galloways - I will not

You must be very new to politics if you have to ask what the difference is between being towards the left and the far left

The left and the far left are shifting definitions as you should know Anniebach. I was watching a programme about the 80s last night and they touched on the "Loony Left" and the running of the GLC. It was interesting, the things they funded- Gay rights, women's groups,women's refuges probably laid the base of most of what we today accept as our ordinary human rights. At the time the press slated them, but without them would we still have gay people in teaching afraid to admit to their true sexuality? Hundreds of women and children were rescued from violence, and domestic violence is now taken seriously by the police, because of the policies that were once regarded as 'far left'. Sometimes social change takes place because the extremists plant ideas and others adopt them.

And extremists never destroy Democracy ?

Eloethans post
I doubt that Theresa May is a hypocrite, which is actually character assignation.

Everyopne knows the difference between left and far left.

I also have a bit of a problem about the "poor and most vulnerable". It is really say the bottom 1/3 in society, income wise, that are being affected I would say. But that is probably a thread for another time.

Seems some alleged labour supporters here do not know the difference between left and far left obieone

Calling Theresa May a hypocrite is "character assassination" I assume you mean obeione what would you call the various terms that have been used about Corbyn? In my opinion Theresa has got off very lightly!

@nightowl

Yes, I know they abstained against the Welfare Bill. I can't remember the reason, but it backfired. However, if you look back at the voting record to 2010, nearly all Labour MPs have consistently voted against every cut to welfare plus 'reform' of the NHS and education. They couldn't have done any more, because there aren't enough of them and there aren't likely to be.

Labour is going to need between 70 and 100 gains in the 2020 election for a majority, depending on how many seats go back to LibDems and Ukip and are won back from the SNP and how boundary changes affect them.

This is the list of top marginals...

ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/labourtargets/

Unless Labour wins back Scotland, the seats Labour will need to win include Chingford, Basingstoke, Bexleyhealth, Kensington and Southend. It really isn't going to happen! So the country is going to be stuck with a government, voted in by only 25% of those eligible to vote. There is a very real chance that some of the top 100 marginals will go to Ukip, which will give them a voice in Parliament.

I actually don't think the terms 'left', 'far left', 'right' etc are that well-defined. People can have social views very different from their views about how the economy should be run.

@obieone

It is a topic for another thread, but interestingly the 1/3 poorest and most vulnerable don't necessarily vote Labour. They can be socially conservative (with a small 'c') and sometimes don't want to feel that they're identifying with the poorest. What we're now seeing is the 'middle classes' increasingly affected by austerity through job losses, wage freezes, cuts to tax credits and disability benefits, higher rents, student finance, cuts to education and health and closure of libraries, etc. If they're not directly affected, many know somebody who is. Analysts seem to think that the 'middle class' Labour vote is more solid than the traditional 'working class' one.

daphnedill there always was a significant working class right wing- think Alf Garnett in the 60s.

Daphne,the same voters who voted Blair into government , I think they would vote labour again if we had a leader from centre to centre left, they will not vote for a far left leader and no matter who denies this - Corbyn being serenaded by groupies and enjoying it are making the party a joke

I despair that a labour supporter praises a leader because he gives her some hope, is this what he has reduced the party to ? Some hope and no hope

I want a leader who will give hope .

Trisher you watched a programme on the eighties and praise the left. I posted of the fight labour members had in the eighties and silence , with the exception of one poster who said she couldn't refute my experiences because it wasn't in the press

Reminds me of a couple who were labour supporters, they bought their council house and next election she put up vote labour posters and he put up vote conservative poster - in the same house

@trisher

I know. I was querying the general assumption that the working classes and/or poor/vulnerable always vote Labour.

Do you honestly think Corbyn can win enough seats to have a workable majority? If he doesn't, it doesn' matter how much people jump up and shout about injustice, the Conservatives will stay in power and drive through measures which will destroy the NHS, education and the foundations of the welfare state. We'll be back to the mid 1940s.

Nightowl. I feel very strongly that many of the people on this thread are not as hostile as they sound. At the moment the thread is full of personal attacks on JC but if they think about his policies instead, free university education, a properly funded NHS, and rent controls and affordable housing so that our children and grandchildren will have the same chances to get on in life that we had, they will realise that the contest is not about one man, but about the future of ordinary people in the UK.

Celia I am very hostile( to Corbyn, not the man, but the politician) because I want some decent strong opposition, that is how things are the best in politics, if the opposition keeps the government on their toes, whoever is in power.
Free university places are long gone, only a tiny part of the population ( say in the 60's)) went to uni, so it could be done, now look at how many go there, it could not be funded.Corbyn may promise the moon on a stick, but if he got into power ( unlikely) then he and his Cabinet would have to do what all new governments do, namely compromise and shelve things for a later date.

Celia, to achieve these we have to have a labour government , this is what I keep saying .

He cannot win votes from middle England , easy to say every thing will be free , getting into government to carry even some of policies through is a different matter . I agree with the policies , they are socialist policies . He has not put forward how he will achieve all this .

CeliaVL You have to be in power to implement these policies. That's what this whole thread is about. Yes, it is a personnel attack on JC ( it is for me) because of him labour aren't going to have power for, I don't know how many years.