Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Owen Smith is not a sacrificial lamb, the so called bright young stars care for the party , if only the few aged liars did

Will corbynites state the majority Corbyn will win by when he wins the next general election

As for lack of integrity , nothing beats being accused of racism, appointing a friend to carry out an I Dependant! Enquiry and when she declares him innocent he presents her with a seat in the Lords , that's integrity ? Too funny

I wonder how many labour party rules are going to be broken or twisted to suit the JC camp.

His camp are taking over the NEC, lining up MP's to deselect and replace with momentum members . The next plan is to get the general secretary out, they have it all plotted out , these people of integrity

If Owen Smith is the bright young star of the Labour party it is completely screwed. This is a man who worked for 2 of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world until very recently, who oversaw a report that recommended privatisation of the NHS (something he is now trying to distance himself from). It may well be that he has had some sort of Damascene conversion but he has no record to show he is a man of principle and embodies everything that people distrust in politicians. The centre ground has been very firmly and cleverly occupied by the Conservatives. The Labour party needs to take advantage of the younger generation who are suffering and looking for another way of doing things. The people Anniebach dismisses as "Corbyn groupies" are the future of the party. But she persists in seeing Momentum everywhere even asking if I am a member, when actually I am a 'floating voter'.

I can feel your pain in these posts Annie

I don't post a lot on political threads and I have never voted Labour in my life but I hope that a 'proper' labour party can emerge from this shambles. The country needs a sensible opposition.

I admit I am devasted Kitty, have worked fifty years for the party, battled through fourteen general elections and now am being forced out by a far left regime , I dread the next election, no idea which constituencies to campaign in , depends which MP's will be deselected . Plus UKIP are targeting Wales

Will Owen Smith supporters say what his majority will be in the next election?

So Trisher, a leader who can have a friend and party member to carry out an independent ! enquiry , find him innocent so he bestows a title on her is a man of principle ? Interesting view of principles

@trisher

Be careful about lumping all younger voters - even left-leaning ones - in a single group. Looking at pictures of Momentum rallies, it's obvious that most of the supporters are young(ish), but that doesn't mean that all young people support Momentum.

As I've mentioned before, my daughter is a Labour Party member, but she and her friends are becoming increasingly disillusioned. She lives in Manchester and has knocked on doors and spoken to people. She has also attended meetings since Corbyn became leader. If his leadership is confirmed (which it almost certainly will be), she is going to cancel her membership. She certainly doesn't see 'Corbyn groupies' as the future of the party, at least not a governing party.

I am not here to promote the cause of Shami Chakarabati someone whose record on human rights even you can't dispute Anniebach. Maybe Corbyn isn't the right leader but the point is you have no electable alternative only someone who has a record of lobbying for the highest bidder and who is even more of an election loser than Corbyn. But you obviously see him as a rising star which is really disheartening.

@anniebach

Ukip is going to target much of northern England, if it can get its own act together. It's very scary that the two main parties might be Conservative and Ukip. It will be a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea!

My son cancelled his Labour party membership some time ago daphnedill and wrote about it for the Guardian, he is now thinking of re-joining. One in, one out. Personal reflections are interesting but only so much can be gleaned from them.

Trisher, do you think Corbyn can win a general election?

Shami's record on human rights cannot be disputed, but to undertake thst independent! Enquiry then accept a seat in the lords disgusts me, why not stand as an MP? She has let down the Jewish community . Did you not watch Corbyn questioned by the select committee? She wrote notes and passed them to Corbyn to answer the questions , and he wants to be PM

Maybe she doesn't want to be an MP.
I don't know if Corbyn can win, I have more hope for him than for Owen Smith desperately trying to assert his Labour principles, dodge his lobbying history and distance himself from Blairites. It's uncomfortable to watch and unlikely to win any votes. Do you think OS can win an election? I repeat he is everything people hate about politicians.

Neither Smith or Corbyn could win a general election. Perhaps ?Smith should say. - with hindsight I shouldn't have worked for those companies . It worked for Corbyn when he said with hindsight he shouldn't have said .hamas were his friends

@trisher

Indeed! It seems to me that one of Labour's biggest problems is reconciling at least two major factions within its traditional supporters.

My daughter is a graduate with an economics degree and comes from a relatively sheltered background in the South East. She is socially liberal (with a small 'l'), as many of her peers are. She was quite shocked to find out that many traditional Labour voters didn't share her social views. Outside central Manchester, traditional Labour voters (particularly older ones) have less sympathy with Corbyn's views.

Initially, my daughter supported Corbyn, because she thought he was new blood, but has become disillusioned, because she can see that he is just not appealing to people who have voted Labour in the past and need to be brought back. I know she's just one person, but she does have friends with the same views and has attended meetings, including a Momentum rally.

PS. Two of her Labour supporting friends are Jewish and, whatever Corbyn's faults, they don't accept that anti-semiticism is rife within the Labour Party. I don't know what to make of the anti-semiticism issue, but I don't think Chakrabati's report was a whitewash. I think she's just the sort of person the Lords needs, but the timing of her joining the Labour Party and nomination seems suspect.

PPS. I don't think either Corbyn or Smith could win a general election.

Goodness knows what will happen, but I don't feel very positive.

I think he's lazy... and just wants the glory title of being Labour Leader. It showed in his reluctance to get out the vote to remain...so what if he didn't like Cameron, it was about the country now his ego. He thinks having the TU mandate is all that is necessary to be a leader.

Sad that as we have hard-working labour mp's in my city and in my area. But I would not vote for her now because I do not want to support the current labour regime.

Nobody paid Corbyn £90000 a year when he spoke about Hamas. It is the idea that he is for hire that OS needs to distance himself from and that will take time.

Who's saying Corbyn was paid £90,000? Sorry, I've missed something here.

He wasn't but OS was when he worked for Pfizer. Annie likened it to Corbyn's support for Hamas and I was pointing out that no money was involved in that, unlike when OS was overseeing reports advocating privatisation of the NHS.

If Corbyn is re-elected, which seems likely, the Labour Party is finished, both as an effective opposition, and as a potential Government. The Parliamentary Party will fracture, and this will lead to the formation of a new Socialist grouping which will be independent of the "Old Labour" residue, which will then be left to wither on the vine, increasingly alienated by its out-dated and unrealistic policies. Whatever happens,we will be left with an impotent opposition, and that is most unhealthy regardless of who is in power...

Why did Labour lose the last election, and the one before?
Corbyn cannot be blamed for that.

This is a very sad thread. The one thing that is obvious in all parts of the country is that 'politics as usual' is not acceptable. The sight of Parliament sitting in two blocks, and jeering and hooting at each other over PMQs has put a lot of people off. Similarly, the Brexit vote went the way it did because outside the South East those who think of themselves as working class felt completely cut off and forgotten by Westminster.
Every 5 years we get an election, and in the majority of constituencies most people don't vote because unless it is a marginal your vote is wasted.
The country is crying out for a new way of doing things. Jeremy Corbyn is offering that. Owen Smith and other PLP members are cut from the same privileged cloth.
Momentum is not a trotskyist grouping, just further left than the Blair position; and it isn't only young people who want a change.
The best part of a year has been wasted by infighting instigated by the PLP and by biased reporting in the media.
Not to mention the amount of membership money that has been thrown at lawyers. It isn't surprising Corbyn is feeling pressurised, he has enormous support in the country and nothing but back-stabbing from the PLP.
OK rant over (for now)