Well that was interesting. I should say Panarama was also enlightening but not as forceful and uncompromisingly direct in it's reporting content as Dispatches.
I'm not going to simply post on the Lib Dem Thread which has turned into a Labour Thread as I think this programme summed up exactly what I have thought and have been posting since the formation of Momentum , it is a ' Party within a Party.'
I will say now to those who will see it as propaganda and take umbrage at my post you cannot argue with what you see and hear from the horses mouth, no matter how hard you might try and no doubt will.
The fact Momentum are doing all they can to play down the Momentum name in connection to the ' Jeremy for Labour ' Campaign , the use of the Unite Union office are significant, the way the reporter was paid is serious stuff and I hope there is further investigation into that. Will anybody take it up I wonder?.
Has anybody 'Cicked' on the ' Jeremy for Labour ' Campaign or answered questions on the phone in connection with it. The reason I ask is if you have you are, as I understood it, on the data base on the Jeremy For Labour Services?. Listen to what is said about it , you may not be too happy, or maybe you will of course.
There is to be fair a Momentum explanation and statement at the end of the programme but it is worth viewing to make your own mind up if you didn't catch it.
I thought you wanted to hold out the hand of friendship to whitewave.
You are just doing your normal criticising again.
Any excuse and you just can't help it, can you?
He did more campaigning on Brexit than anyone else in the labour party. Statistics show it.
He did far more than May, and she's PM and in charge of Brexit.
dj, you need to remember the Parable of the Prodigal Son who was forgiven without any conditions attached. That is what I expect if he is really serious about uniting the Party. You forgive, forget and move on. If you can't then it is not worth the effort. Be honest about it. Broad Church Party, every one welcome to contribute - or only if we let you. Only time will tell.
Hang on , I have not disagreed with whitewave, and I did not say I would not criticise your messiah , you are goading post after post, what on earth is wrong with you.
Accept this , I do not trust Corbyn I have said why , so back of with your goading please, you seem to have forgotten all the lectures you have given on democracy . If may I suggest you set whitewave as a good example not ?McDonald
I didn't say you disagreed with whitewave.
Whitewave suggested that you try to write positive things, and you have just written negative since then.
Corbyn asked that we start again, forget about what has happened over the last year and try to get on, but you can't , can you?
It's going to get very boring if you just write the same things over and over and over again.
Ditto Jen
Who is the prodigal son, devorgilla?
Corbyn won the election, and he is being treated as if he is the prodigal son by the likes of Tristram Hunt and Hilary Benn.
anniebach There have now been two elections and Corbyn has increased his majority, despite many people being prevented from voting.
Despite this, those who are disgruntled about the result have demonstrated that they have no intention whatsoever of ceasing their neverending sniping. If these people - including you - continue to keep bashing Corbyn and saying that Labour will never win, they are highly likely to bring about that very outcome.
What exactly do you want to achieve by this? I think it is true that the vast majority of Labour members and politicians have more to unite than divide them. Why can't we now focus on challenging the Conservatives, who are looking pretty shaky at the moment. While all this is going on, they are being let off the hook.
I post my opinion of Corbyn as a leader and a politician and I am sniping
Others give there opinions on 170 MP's, former leaders and they are not sniping?
The Tories will win the next election not because of my opinion of Corbyn but because of Corbyn .
Corbynites think because they think Corbyn is the new messiah the majority of voters in the country will think the same .
McDonald said this morning the shadow cabinet had worked out their plans for fighting in the Brexit campaign, Angela Eagle and Hilary Benn discussed it with Corbyn AND McDonald who decided to do it their way .
I have said countless times Corbyn let the party down in the Brexit campaign but no, the Corbynites will not have it, the members of the shadow cabinet who resigned were to blame for leaving the shadow cabinet, not Corbyn for refusing to work as a team
Anyone want to start opposing the Tories? Easy peasy at the moment and far more satisfying
What is so wrong with Tom Watsons proposal for choosing the shadow cabinet?
Do you realy believe party members know all the labour MP's better than they know themselves when they work together daily ?
Jen has said all party members need to do is check their voting record order and speeches, who has time to do this ?
How can Corbyn rabbit on sbout being united but refuses to include the MP's
A spokesperson for momentum is now saying momentum are working on their way of promoting Corbyn for the election .
Good grief , middle aged hippies and students will win over middle England
I ask again Anniebach, what are you hoping to achieve by continuing in this vein?
I don't think that Corbyn is the "new messiah", and I don't expect any of the Gransnetters on here who have expressed support for him think he is either. Some people disagree with your opinions and I don't think you repeating the same scornful comments over and over again is likely to change that.
Personally I'd go more for the middle-aged hippies and the students rather than the right-wing, almost-but-not-quite- Tory, professional politicians Labour First are collecting.
But then I'm probably an ageing hippie myself. Some of us in spite of age cling to left-wing principles.
Can we now be as abusive as we like about people who join groups within the Labour party? Especially as some of us have been condemned as Corbynistas and members of Momentum because we simply pointed out that Corbyn was the only likely winner of the leadership challenge.
I'm going to start listing what is good about the LP.
1. Beginning to develop an economic policy. Talks with CBI taking place. Idea is to have a bank in which the government invests in order to expand and develop our industrial base.
The government will intervene if necessary to save what is considered essential industry in order to safeguard the UK security.
I shall look further into this at the academics who have/are developing this idea and report back.
Just to expand and give practical examples.
Remember steel in Wales. The Tories hung back and hung back but were eventually forced to step in. Well that's the sort of intervention Labour is talking about.
If you need to look at how this works in practice Germany is a good model
How about forgetting labels and tribalism and going for the people who have been affected by austerity? After six years of a Coalition/Tory government, more people are beginning to see that they've been taken for a ride. I haven't a clue how many people are concerned about principles, but I do know that people care about the NHS, the schools their children/grandchildren go to, having a steady job, decent housing, an adequate safety net when times are really tough, etc etc.
There are indicators that traditional, working class Labour voters are veering towards Ukip, which could be a real threat in the Labour heartlands. Ukip knows how to use simplistic soundbites to appeal to such voters. Not everybody is persuaded by Corbyn's 'gentle politics' or Momentum's enthusiasm.
Labour now needs to put some padding on the principles with real down to earth policies. 75% of the electorate did not vote for the Conservatives. It's like an open goal with all the players running around practising their dribbling skills, rather than going for the goal.
Broad left coalition might be the answer
Eleothan, I don't want or expect to change anyine's opinion on Corbyn
Corbynites here refuse to discuss his weaknesses and rant whrn I do
Jen put a link to a campaign to support firemen , they have my full support , but why accuse the council which is demanding these twelve shifts of behaving as the Labour council did in Liverpool in the eighties yet if I condemn Corbyns part in dupporting these councillors I get attacked?
Do you really believe the country will vote for a far left government?
The majority of voters are not homeless, disabled, unemployed , are people in middle England going to vote for a far left government?
Momentum are now planning a campaign for the general election , labour MP's are being ignored , excluded , yes labour have many new members but lost many members who have stayed with the party through good and bad times.
I do not understand the reasoning here by Corbynites , Joe Cox was wonderful, her close friend Neil Kinnock who inspired Jo to join the Labour Party is mocked
The Manchester council are baddies yet I speak of the damage the likes of Derek Hatyon did and the fact Corbyn supported him and I am ranting
A labour MP in Liverpool is being threatened with deselection , why?
Most definitely whitewave , I would work as hard for the party at the next election as I have for all elections over the last fifty years . I will not work for a far left militant party .
Why not give the MP's a vote in the shadow cabinet, there are approx sixty posts to be filled yet Corbyn refuses to include the MP's , it worked fine untill Milliband changed the rules five years ago . I am against the shadow cabinet being selected by only party members because the majority will not know who they are voting for
Corbyn is not reaching out to the MP's, he is saying work with me, get behind me but do not expect any say in how or where I lead the party
Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are not right wing, almost but not quite Tories .
Annie
You are quite right
The majority of voters are not homeless, disabled, unemployed
But a substantial number now have family who have been adversely affected by Tory policies. They have children with degrees who can't find jobs, have huge debts, and who come home because housing is so expensive They have elderly parents affected by the cuts in the NHS and social care. They have children who can't get into local schools. They are packed onto trains and pay through the nose for it.
They are looking for a party that will offer something better and some of them even have social consciences and care about the poor and the disabled. Middle England is not the safe and secure place it once was.
No one can be deselected in the Labour Party. There is nothing in the rules t hat allows that. But if the boundary changes go through then some MPs will lose their seats. That's a matter of fact. They also have to go through a selection process as is usual in these circumstances as their seats will no longer exist.
The CLPs will, as is usual select the candidate they think is the best candidate. That is normal. Some MPs may be feeling very nervous about this process, and understandably so. However, if there is an excellent MP who has done Stirling work and represents his constituents well and strongly supports the Labour Party and its leadership, then why wouldn't they get selected?
Principles and the Labour Party don't go hand in hand.
Just so as you know, give me £25 and I'll vote for you, along with a lot of other people.
What amused me is how you take politics so seriously. [grim]
Because whitewave it will depend on the party members not the constituency to choose a labour candidate , if momentum have more of their members they will choose a far left candidate no matter how good the present MP is
But aren't the party members also members of the CLPs? I can't vote unless I attend those meetings can I?
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