Channel 4 Dispatches - Momentum Party

I foresee the the man-in-the-street, experiencing cuts in benefits et al, will shift blame to Immigration; historically, always the way. Therefore the Party who makes entry to this Country harder will be the winner. Can't, offhand, think what Corbyn,s mob think of controlled immigration, but will, doubtless, be told.

Corbyn is against controlled immigration , he is fully for free movement

Thank you Annie; as expected! May I congratulate you on continuing your fight for common sense in the PLP against outdated views that will destroy labour. Take a bow.

Thank you Beam, just trying to share my experiences of fifty years as a Labour activist and trying but failing to get across the fact that whilst rigid ideals can be admired there are times when compromise must play a part , reaching out to the country and getting out of our comfort zone

Well perhaps anniebach you'd also like to a have a go at compromising by, if not feeling you can give your backing to the Labour Party, then at least refraining from constantly proclaiming that Labour is unelectable and that those who voted for Corbyn are a morally suspect and altogether disreputable bunch.

Beammeupscottie I think Corbyn should be given a chance and I am not part of a "mob".

I notice the "man in the street" isn't too concerned about immigration when he is getting his extension built quickly and cheaply by Eastern European builders and when his health and elderly care needs are met by workers from all over the world.

As Corbyn has already said, if proper action was taken against employers who underpay and exploit workers from abroad and against landlords who cram their houses to bursting point with people and charge them exorbitant rents, that might be a more effective way of preventing the undercutting of wages and the inflating of housing costs.

Just spent a happy two hours watching some of the Labour party speeches and must admit I've been pleasantly surprised. I truly hope that Labour can get its act together and take its messages to the 'man on the street' (and woman).

I agree with you, Eloethan, and those messages need to get out there.

Nick Hewer and Margaret Mountford did a TV programme a couple of years ago called 'Too many immigrants?' (I think), which contrasted the attitude of immigrants and anti-immigrants. I think the immigrants showed up those who thought there were too many of them. There should be more in the media like that.

Indeed Annie if you are going to keep on saying that Labour can't win you are playing into the hands of the Tories.
Increasing the minimum wage, to a proper living wage, as McDonnell suggested, and catching those who do not pay it, is another way to reduce immigration. There are lots of permanent residents who can't afford to take those bottom end of the market jobs because they will lose their benefits and incur all the costs of going to work (child care, travel etc etc).

so freedom of movement has the full support of this forums Corbynites but freedom of speech does not , you would be st home in Russia

Why not be critical about the real enemies, the ones in the Tory party?
Controlling the borders and restricting movement is a simplistic argument that will inevitably appeal to the lowest common denominator of thought.
However it will damage the UK economy if employers cannot get the expertise they need. The problem lies with the lower paid jobs and the construction industry.
I think Corbyn's analysis of the lower paid jobs is right - however it's a much more sophisticated message and Miliband for one, did not manage to convince people that the answer lies in cracking down on exploitation.
The construction industry is problematic. It may be the only one in which wages (for subcontractors) are pushed down by uncontrolled immigration - but because of the fluctuations in the construction industry and the relative lack of training in the UK, it may be the industry that most benefits from free movement.
Most construction companies tend not to employ many people directly - its all subbies because of the temporary nature of the big projects. So any legislation that says you have to have a job first, will not meet with their approval.

You are the last one to speak of respect for freedom of speech anniebach. You are constantly attacking people with whom you disagree through the use of insult, ridicule and innuendo. I have asked you several times what you are hoping to achieve by repeatedly predicting the Labour Party's demise - you ignore that reasonable enquiry and instead say that I, and others, would be more at home in Russia.

Given that you, like me, voted to remain in the EU, you presumably were not concerned about the free movement of labour from EU countries and I believe you expressed dismay about the resulting vote to leave. Corbyn is merely sticking to the principle of free movement of labour which underlies continuing membership of the EU, which both you and he voted for.

We are making the assumption that people will vote for a party that reduces immigration.

We know that to cut immigration will undoubtedly harm our economy in many sectors, and to do so would leave many businesses without the skills and workers they so badly need.
We know that it is a myth that the immigrants put too much pressure on our services, that in fact immigrants are net contributors to our economy and so we benefit in receiving tax, vat etc.

Now ask yourself.

Would it make more sense to cut immigration because there is an assumption that the vote will come flying in, or

Refuse to play the populist game and do what is best for the UK economy, and in doing so use everything in your power to re-educate the voting public

In a poll earlier this week the majority were in favour of keeping free movement.

Really? I have only been in the building industry for about forty years, what would I know about the construction industry, employees rights , health and safety , minimum wage, rogue builders, rogue employers , employment of workers from Europe etc.

I must admit to envy for the firms where Eleothan lives, all those extensions built by immigrant workers springing up , all those 'men in the street' affording all those extensions , England must be so wealthy.

Anyway enjoy your admiration for Corbyn posts but I would ask, please don't canvass for the lsbour party, some responses would cause you such distress

Re educate the voting public, oh deary me

That 're-educate the voting public 'sentence......... sounds very chilling , rather like something you would find in the book 1984 ( maybe Orwell got the date a bit on the early side.)

as regards immigration, being free of the EU would mean that we can have as much or as little as we need, so why should any foreign builders etc not be available if we want them?

Re educate? How exactly is this to be achieved? Overtones of North Korea methinks!!

Roses, don't bring logic to the table , we have to be positive ,praise everything Corbyn says, seems I am swaying the entire voting population to vote Tory .

Thank God for Tom Watson , a deputy leader who cares for the party not his own ego, unlike the leader elected by momentum

We have means of re educating you !

So 60% of the Labour party are members of momentum Annie- if they are responsible for his election. When will you accept that there was no credible alternative candidate and go with the majority vote? If you say 'never' then I suggest despite your record you would be better not campaigning for the party just now. You have grievances and complaints which you need to sort out.
As the views of many people on immigration are probably drawn from the TV programmes condemning them it might be a good idea to have some balanced reporting and some information about immigrants in our health and welfare services. Call it re-education if you wish.

The newspapers' are saying Corbyn snubbed Watson after his speech. I did notice Corbyn had that mulish look again; he really believes stubbornness is strength! Silly old fool!

The newspapers don't like Corbyn why should they print anything positive? If you can tell what people believe from their faces you are very clever. Tony Blair always smiled sweetly who knew that he was a warmonger?

Corbyn just hasn't got the hang of disguising his true feelings yet - he seems to love a good glower!

Re-educate -I thought as soon as I posted it "open goal there"

However, now that you have got that out of your system, do you agree that immigration has made a positive contribution to the UK?

Tony Blair brought in the minimum wage, sure start, working tax credits, paternity leave, the equality and human rights commission , civil partnerships, banned fur farming , cosmetic testing on animals and fox hunting, raised the number of youngsters gaining a university education, raised the number of nurses, gave workers the right to 24 day holidays a year, free breast screening for women 50 - 70 years of age, free entry to museums , free nusery places for 3 and 4 year olds , and many more achievements .

Obviously Corbynites didn't listen to Tom Watsons speech yesterday

I am proud I voted for all the above, i am proud to be a member of the Labour Party and unlike Mcdonald I have never had to whisper socialism . Sadly he is not aware of the difference between socialism and militancy / communism