Channel 4 Dispatches - Momentum Party

Oh is that the one about Momentum? Only I'm not really interested in them as there does seem a lot of fuss and bother made about them which doesn't seem terribly balanced as they don't affect my voting decisions one jot and I suspect they don't affect yours or almost all the labour members your know.
Never has such hot air and energy been used over a left wing member of the Labour party - well not since Michael Foot and Tony Benn. Saw it all happen last time not taking any notice this time.

Did you mean me Annie? I can't see that trisher has posted recently.

If so, you mistake me for someone who defends momentum. I have no interest in defending momentum, I have knowledge of them but am not a member, not because I think they are dodgy or suspect in some way, but because I have no interest in joining. But I do think (know) that you and many others on here have a completely skewed view of what they are about, fed by the media.

There are other groups within the Labour Party that give me far more cause for concern.

Yes whitewave and isn't it strange how so many people now admire and respect Tony Benn, now he is safely dead. Even Michael Foot is far more respected than he ever was in office. I would love to hear their views of what is going on in the party now.

No nightowl.

Apologies whitewave

Totally agree nightowl, although Tony Benn did gain respect before his death, mainly because everything he said about the effect the Tory party would have came true. It would be so interesting to have a conversation with him now, and to heat what advice he would give to Jeremy Corbyn.

Hear, not heat!

He would, like any labour MP say the only way to defeat the Tories is to win the election, opinions of the Tory party can go on and on , doesn't win an election ,

The problem Labour have is the link Durhamjen posted on Wed 22.54 could 'for the most part' apply to Corbyn and his followers equally, simply exchange Smith for Corbyn , left for right and it could be written for either . It will simply depend on which 'side' you belong to.!

Extracts.

"There you have it. Allowing the Tories a free reign, allowing Labour to plummet in the polls, and allowing Labour to lose control of Bristol City Council"

"He has been sacrificed as their useful idiot. Smith’s inflated ego doesn’t allow him to see that he has been hoodwinked by his peers"

"Their cultish and entitled arrogance means that they think they own Labour Party and the direction it should take. Their collective behaviour since day one of Corbyn’s leadership conclusively proves the point"

"When Tony Blair was the Labour Party leader and left-wing members resigned in their thousands,".

(That's why Labour regained POWER , the influence of the far left had been snuffed out. That's why you see and hear so often from Corbyn followers 'I/We have waited over 30 years to get my/our Labour Party back).

I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of what Tony Benn would say Annie. Many people accused him of destroying the Labour Party back then Annie and I don't think there was any evidence that his political views changed in old age. He had socialist principles, and retained them to the end. But maybe you knew him better than me.

Whatever the arguments I think most people understand the low regard in which politicians world wide are regarded by the voting populations.

As a result we have the horror that is Trump,and the rise of the right wing in Europe. Movements like Momentum will happen as a counterbalance to what many people particularly the young see as the move to the right in the UK.
Yesterday the Director of the V&A resigned indicating that Brexit and all that it underpinned was his main reason for resigning also stating that so much if what is happening in Europe including the UK reminds him of the20s and 30s. He isn't alone in saying this I have heard a number of academics say the same.
The world I feel is in a very dark place at the moment I am beginning to fear for the future.

Perhaps I did nightowl

I love being so cheerful

Except POGS that Jeremy Corbyn was democratically elected as leader, not chosen by a group of MPs to be the fall guy.

And right wing labour wasn't winning any elections before Jeremy Corbyn came along. New Labour was already dead in the water. People want something new. As it says in the article. But the 'moderates' haven't understood that yet.

I fear for the future too, ww.

It seems unthinkable to us now that we could be plunged into some kind of global war, but people in the late 1920s/early 1930s thought the same.

I've read so many newspaper cuttings (both English and German) and diary extracts from the time. People really didn't think that WW2 was coming. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and they didn't have it, nor do we.

Can I respectfully ask a question of some posters who are voting Corbyn but say they know nothing about Momentum.

I don't understand how so much information has been spoken of, coverage aired on T.V, interview after interview heard, news media coverage has taken ho!d since Corbyn became Leader some posters say they ' No Nothing' of Momentum and even more perplexed as to why they are 'Uninterested to Know' anything about Momentum. Why? Because Momentum is such a huge force in the shaping of the future of the Labour Party you are voting for under the Leadership of Corbyn.

If that is in all honesty true, and I am not going to challenge somebody's honesty, then don't you at least want to understand what issues surround Momentum as it is such a huge part of the Corbyn Team/ The Corbyn Engine . I thought posters have said they have have been to meetings/hustings , was there no Momentum presence there?

Mind you having heard from the horses mouth Momentum do not want their name involved/promoted in certain areas I wonder if you would know .

I don't think Labour was dead in the water, nightowl. I voted for them for the first time ever in 2015 and truly hoped they would win.

I won't vote for the current set up, because they're behaving like a primary school playground. I've lost track of all the factions bickering with each other.

I have very little confidence in Corbyn or his supporters. They might say the right things (sometimes) about social justice, but it comes over as abstract ideology. I have no confidence that any of them have seriously thought through how they would achieve change in reality.

Only 25% of those eligible to vote voted for the current Tory government, so there are potentially 75% of voters who would vote for an anti-Tory government. It's tragic that a strong opposition can't wipe the floor with the Tories, but opinion polls show that Labour is becoming even more unpopular with the general public.

Labour will never win an election with the far left in control , didn't in 1983 and will not win the next. Easy to say how many new young members Momentum has drawn into the party, no matter the rest of the country who are not members, or like me are members and know from experience how a far left Labour Party is feared in this country . Labour will lose quite a large number of seats come the new boundaries ..

To win an election the party must win seats off the Tories, Libs and UKIP in England and Wales, not in labour strong holds only.

Corbyn and McDonald are concerned with holding power in the party not in the country.

Corbyn had a shadow cabinet , those who resigned did so because Corbyn let them down in the Brexit campaign and the infiltration of Militsntd, communist etc. . Pretend as much as you choose but this is the fact.

Flogging a dead horse there Pogs

Dd yes if you step back and look at the bigger picture - it is so easy to get down with parochial stuff- it is beginning to look quite worrying. I think as far as our -the wests- relationship with Russia is concerned this is as bad as the cold war. The middle east is worse than its ever been
The EU is in crises, with the right being in ascendancy.
It goes on and on

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn or Momentum. There is not a hope in hell of Labour winning an election under him, or any hard left leadership. I think it's sad that many people on the left don't seem to care about winning an election. And even sadder that many people who are new to politics are taken in by his approach, and believe that things will actually change as a result of them supporting him ( all those rallies etc).
But most of all I feel sorry for local politicians and candidates who are doing a good job. We desperately need more women to stand for local councils, but so many will be put off by the Corbyn/Momentum nonsense in local parties. And good candidates, in moderate seats, will lose because the general public don't want to vote Labour whilst it is led by Corbyn.

He, and the people behind Momentum ( a rag bag of Militants, unions and posh boys) have done so much damage to Labour, to women, and to the people who suffer under a Tory Govt. It's heartbreaking.

One is flogging a dead horse against denial

Annie why are you equating my rejection of right wing politics with support of Momentum!? It doesn't make sense.

Nightowl

You make a fair response.

"Except POGS that Jeremy Corbyn was democratically elected as leader, not chosen by a group of MPs to be the fall guy"

Yes he was and some of those who nominated Corbyn for the Leadership have been vocal as to how they regret their decision as time has past. MP's such as Margaret Beckitt, Sarah Champion, Neil Coyle (Who alongside the deceased MP Jo Cox wrote of their regret), Clive Efford , Frank Field etc., I could go on naming names but the point I am making is they have all felt they no longer can support him as Leader and Momentum is often mentioned as part of the reason why.

As for New Labour was 'Dead In The Water' that may be true . Personally I think Ed Milliband was a disaster for Labour and had it ' changed Leader' who knows? The Leader the membership want is not necessarily the Leader the country wants to govern them, the two can be worlds apart.

You're last sentence is spot on POGS ! The Tories are no different....many of the old style membership loathed Cameron. The difference is they didn't care about liking him, as long as he was a winner....The Labour Party seem to have the opposite approach at the moment!

David Milliband has stated the the labour has never been so unelectable since the 1930s.

In relation to the rise of the far right in Europe: " When naive politicians ignore their people, they will turn to someone will listen"
This was from an article explaining the vote in Berlin. They weren't all skin heads in Doc Martins, but ordinary folk who didn't like the changes happening in their country.