Foreigners

Try living up here...it's rampant Scottish Nationalism.

Anybody taking Australian citizenship has to pay a great deal of money, take a test and make a pledge of commitment to the country. It shouldn't matter where they were born.
It is not a prerequisite for a job there, although obviously an employer will think twice about offering a permanent position to someone who may not be offered citizenship. It is not a case of taking Australian citizenship as it is not an automatic right.
DD is not an Australian citizen but was offered a permanent position.

suzied your arguments re your DIL are rather a red herring.

Good job as far as I'm concerned. Surely everyone knows wages have dropped because the immigrants will take less pay. It's about time our own people were put first. We have far too many immigrants here already as far as I'm concerned. They should be sending hundreds of thousands of them back, not letting more in. Many parts of England are unrecognisable now because they have more immigrants than British people. For instance London where I was born and brought up. The town I come from in East London is unrecognisable now. And look at all the horrible crimes that have been committed by some of the immigrants, both here and in other European countries. Many immigrants are wanted in their own countries by the police and yet have been allowed here so they obviously haven't been checked.

FGS
The forms are designed to help children who may not speak English as their first language, the same as their intention in Wales where they have been used already.

Stirring up a hornets' nest and stoking up fear is just as bad as people who go round shouting that all immigrants should go home.

Commonsense and reasonableness seem to be flying out of the window to be replaced by hysteria because people lose sight of the facts and what has actually been said.

If the immigrants are here legally, they will be seen on the radar. If from the EU they have a legal right to work and to pay taxes. From anywhere else they should have work permits, and coming in as asylum seekers (which I think is what you are complaining about) they are not allowed to work until they have the correct papers.

If they are getting less pay than someone doing the same job for the same firm, or working without a work permit, then the law is being broken. They should have the same employment conditions as anyone else, and anyone who suspects they are not should report them.

All those foreign nurses in the hospitals are employed at the same rate as their UK co-workers - send them home and you could have no nurse when you need one. Previous generations said much the same about the Irish, but Irish navvies built our roads and canals, and vast numbers of us now have Irish blood in our veins.

Good posts Jalima this all needs a bit of common sense, there are those who worry too much about these things, not everything is done with sinister intent.

My husband is a naturalised British citizen, as a Ugandan-born Asian expelled from the country under Idi Amin. He has been a citizen of this country now for nearly 40 years and has worked very hard and paid taxes for all of them. When he applied for jobs, should he have been refused them because a UK-born citizen was also applying? No doubt that happened - maybe more than once - but I didn't think anyone thought it was morally right. Aren't all citizens supposed to be equal?

One of the nasty effects of Brexit is that it seems to legitimised the nationalist.....well, let's be honest and call it racist...rhetoric that was once confined to the National Front and the more swivel-eyed lunatic fringe of the Daily Mail. The atmosphere of the country has soured, and for what? As someone has already said, how will all this solve the illegal-immigrants- taking- our-jobs issue? If they are illegal, they are already evading the existing rules, so what difference will new ones make? The people who will be hit are the legal immigrants who contribute to our economy and our society.

Maybe instead of counting foreigners and quizzing people about their origins, we might try concentrating on the question of how Brexit is actually going to be implemented, as no-one (including the government) really seems to know. All the waffle about "soft Brexit" as compared to "hard Brexit" and our supposed ability to somehow leave without damaging our economy isn't going to get us very far. Maybe that's why the focus is on the usual easy target, i.e. all these damned foreigners...

There is no undercutting of wages in Australia either - even backpackers are paid at least the minimum wage (a lot higher than ours at A$23.00 per hour) plus pro rata holiday pay plus the employer pays into the pension scheme (which they can withdraw if and when they leave the country as a lump sum).

So it is different to the UK in that Australian-born workers cannot claim that employers are taking advantage of immigrants, whether casual or permanent, and paying them lower wages. The law is strict and the paperwork has to be in meticulous order.

People may disagree with the Australian way but it seems to be advantageous to both Australian-born workers and migrant workers.

Organisations are asked to fill in forms already asking about their percentages of the Disabled, Ethnicity, etc so asking about people working within the company who do not hold British Passports is just going to be another statistic. I think alongside this, the Govt should be asking the DWP to alert them about whole British Families who have never worked a day in their lives and have no intention of doing so.
I am all for training more British Dr's, Nurses and other professionals we need but I think they should work in the NHS/UK for a certain number of years or pay back their training costs. If we want Brits to be put first, there needs to be a responsibility from them too. At the moment we have positive discrimination for the disabled and ethnic minorities, so why not British workers?

to the National Front and the more swivel-eyed lunatic fringe of the Daily Mail.
now that post is a bit of prejudice if ever there was

Should I confess that DH reads the Daily Mail and our dear friends are Ugandan Asians? Must send him to a DMA meeting to confess.
Now there's a conundrum for you Bluecat

I read an eclectic mix myself - or quite often none at all.

@Jalima

Smileless wrote that her son has Australian citizenship. Shouldn't all citizens be treated equally? I'm not talking about people with visas and foreign cditizenship.

Once a country has granted citizenship, surely the person should have equal rights - they have equal responsibilities.

Icanhandthemback I am sure the new thinking on doctors trained here from now on, will have a new ruling saying that they must serve the NHS for four years at least.Since it takes so much money to train a doctor, that seems only right and fair.

...and how about: 'if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere'?

Why are you so sure, roses?

Oh, I missed that bit Ddil

I don't think there is anything in law, but some employers may have a certain prejudice which they should not allow to show.

I doubt very much whether there will be any such clause. Doctors have to pay back their student loans just like anybody else. Unless they are sponsored as medical students by the NHS, I don't see how such an agreement could be enforced.

@Jalima

Exactly! Smileless said her son had been overlooked for permanent jobs, because he wasn't born in Australia, despite now being an Australian citizen. I know zilch about Australian law, but that sounds highly illegal. Others then jumped in and said people born in a country should have priority over foreign-born citizens (I mean citizens in the legal sense, not just somebody living in a country).

All this may cause inflation, hence the interest rate has been reduced again

The only foreigner causing inflation is Mark Carney. The Bank of England is trying to prevent deflation, which is why interest rates are low. At the moment, inflation is too low for a healthy economy. Inflation is needed to encourage spending to keep the economy growing and provide jobs, which in turn produce tax for the government. Deflation is bad for the economy, because people hang on to their money in the hope that prices will drop and can tip a country into recession.

Just what my daughter said to me yesterday.

Above for Granny 23.

I agree with you Bluecat. Brexit has legitimised bigotry in our country. The views must have been quietly held previously, but remained private because they were socially unacceptable. Now bigoted views are openly celebrated. I don't recognise this previously tolerant Britain any longer. We seem to be reverting to the type of views that were around in the '60s and early 70s becoming acceptable again. A time when there were signs in Guest Houses, Cafes etc, which read 'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'.

I actually do think it's reasonable to give a UK Citizen, sorry Subject (don't get me started on the expensive nonsense of a Monarch) the job, over a Foreign National, if both are equally qualified, but I do think it's bigoted to say that Citizen must be British born. If a person is a British Citizen, they are British.

My DH and DS keep pointing out that our royal family are actually German and for centuries before them, we had French kings and queens. In fact, as historians they have double-checked and proved, at least to their own satisfaction, that there has never been an "English" monarch at least since the Norman Conquest, and probably earlier.