Brexit4

You must be reading things differently. I've said several times all are entitled to vote how they wish- but that I find it strange that they are not prepared to stand by their reasons (and therefore outline them, for discussion).

Won and lost? It depends by what you mean by won - some will 'win' lost jobs, others will 'win' losing their home ... some will 'win' being racially attacked too. 'Winning' can be a very misleading concept.

There is nothing vindictive or aggressive in saying that- just seeing the reality out there, the way we see it.

I doubt if they even know what they've 'won'. :-(

The 'we' in this case being....?

Your last post gave me a laugh dd
........but of course YOU don't ever do 'nasty' posts do you? Oh dear, I think the rose tinted specs belong to you.Read your own posts.

Nobody who voted Leave on this forum has been 'amused' at others discomfort, again, go back and read posts on this thread.I do think your posts are trying to stir up trouble.

Which we could all do without.

roses- for the first time in a loooooooooooog time, your post made me laugh out loud. Hilarious. Pot .... k....b massively.

granjura you and a few others are trying to take out your unhappiness at Brexit by being tediously curious.We have gone over old ground too many times, and you will have to accept we are not having any more arguements about 'why' we voted, it has been done on the threads since before June.Talk about what will happen ( or rather what you think will happen) and any new developments as this thread is about Brexit but stop asking (demanding) reasons .At least, talk about it if you like ( a free country) but don't be surprised if it gets ignored from now on.

You forgot to add a ...

Truly

Exactly which poster on here ( go on, name names) has been amused by discomfort or misfortune of others?

Nobody.

I have to say as a new gransnetter , this discussion about brexit has been sadly disappointing, due to the arrogant attitudes of many regular posters. Perhaps others have been put off posting as I have, which could go along way to explain why this particular debate has become repetitive & mean spirited. On the up side I have been moved to join in again!

Are you trying to finish this thread off, roses, by saying nothing?
"Tediously curious"? Were you yawning while you typed that?

Does this hedge fund manager not know what he is talking about?
www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/01/brexiter-crispin-odey-britain-destined-recession

He reckons the stock market will fall by 80% after real Brexit.

It has finally been admitted what we all know to be the case -

Government has no plan, cannot agree a plan, is totally split and in deadlock. There are at least 500 different Brexit projects needing a minimum of 30000 civil servants.

If ever they needed to turn to parliament for help and clarity it is now.

It would be arrogant and foolish in the extreme to reject parliament over A50

Well , Brexit will certainly create a lot of jobs for civil servants.

No money though. Nothing put aside for the extra salaries, and none planned.

durhamjen He's a hedge fund manager. That sort have taken out options to make money on a falling stock market and are now lubricating expectations in advance to ensure it.
People are not as stupid as they used to be regarding the stock market. This has happened once to often for people to fall for it again.

I know that, petra. He's one of the most respected hedge fund managers, though, and has made billions.
I don't respect hedge fund managers.

I see that Merkel is talking about 'tweeking' the immigration numbers for all over the eu.
Now call me a synic if you want but could this have something to do with the fact that Germany and France have an election next year?
Add to that there are many in the eu that must have noticed that we didn't go to hell in a hand cart, the £ didn't fall off a cliff, companies still want to invest here etc etc.
Do you think she's finally waking up and noticing that the people are revolting ( not in that way, obviously)

People need to get over themselves. I voted Remain but now accept we are leaving. I dislike this "party political" stance being taken by Remainers; talking about Government incompetency and headless chickens stuff. Any Gov. would be feeling their way as the Country is in a position new to it.
We should really stop and pull to-gether. I hear the Gov. is working with the Trade Unions which surely is good.
The same with Trump. The Donald is ruling the waves. We deal with it.

Did you see James O'Brian interviewing the Dutch finance minister on Newsnight last night? He was saying amongst other things how Boris is completely wrong in what t he says about free movement of people not being in the original agreement - Guy V is also talking about that erroneous remark - Boris does act like a fool but unfortunately I think this tars the UK with the same brush.
However the Dutchman last night talked about the immigrants and social benefits saying that the UK was the only country NOT to require the need to have paid contributions to the benefits system for a period of time before being eligible to have any payments - he said obviously it was not right for a person to work a few months and then live on benefits indefinitely and the U.K. was the only country to allow this - many people who voted leave gave the immigrants claiming benefits as a reason for voting out - this fact had nothing to do with the EU but once again the stupid UK governments.

He was saying amongst other things how Boris is completely wrong in what he says about free movement of people not being in the original agreement

So a helpful poster on a mumsnet EU thread has posted the wording of the 'freedom of movement' sections of the Treaty of Rome (the original agreement) and the Lisbon treaty

Wording in 1957 Treaty of Rome:
ARTICLE 48 1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured within the Community by the end of the transitional period at the latest.
2. Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

Wording from the Lisbon treaty 2007

1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured within the Union.
2. Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

They look very similar to me

Any idea when the end of the transitional period was?

I see in the Independent that John McDonnell has ruled out a Labour blockage of a "hard Brexit".

I think the 'transitional period' in the 1957 Treaty of Rome referrred to the 12 year period after the signing of the treaty in which tariff barriers were to be dismantled.

That makes sense maize