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No appeal for Orgreave

(36 Posts)
trisher Tue 01-Nov-16 10:37:21

I know it was a long time ago and I know nobody died during the events, but for many, lives were drastically changed by what happened in Orgreave and I think they should at least know who was really responsible for this. I don't think it is possible to deal with the people responsible but I think we should know what happened and put safeguards in place so such things can never happen again

Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 10:52:27

I certainty didn't expect an enquiry . Good grief, police, politicians, MI5 all involved in the cover up . Because no one died? lives were ruined but that doesn't matter, be hard work covering up the deeds of the blessed Maggie

trisher Tue 01-Nov-16 10:55:40

Makes you think that as long as no one actually dies the police are bulletproofed.

Devorgilla Tue 01-Nov-16 11:06:11

I agree. We need to know what actually happened.

Welshwife Tue 01-Nov-16 11:13:29

On the Today programme this morning I heard that an MP had suggested that it should be looked at by a Parliamentary Committee as it would be quicker, far cheaper and just as effective at finding out what happened.

janeainsworth Tue 01-Nov-16 11:28:00

I am not saying that no-one was at fault at Orgreave, but there is certainly a huge cost involved in a public enquiry requiring the services of well-paid lawyers.

Would we rather the £ millions, or billions even, were spent in this way, or channelled into the NHS or education?

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 11:45:02

That was my thoughts too trisher and Anniebach no wonder a lot of people have little or no respect for the police. I lived on an estate where almost every other house was a miner and lives were devastated. Imagine if doctors were set upon in his way during their recent strikes? hmm

vampirequeen Tue 01-Nov-16 13:41:09

We have to know our police are accountable and trustworthy. An inquiry would either prove they were or show what actions have been taken/will be taken to make it so. No inquiry means that Orgreave will continue to blight and colour the opinion of people about the police. Although a lot of the corrupt officers who wrote very similar statements will now be retired they should still be investigated. And what about the claims that there were officers with no numbers on their uniforms thereby making them unidentifiable and troops in boiler suits? All that needs to be investigated and either proved or disproved. The refusal of an inquiry is nothing to do with saving money but everything to do with covering up what really happened and the motives of the people in charge.

Hillsborough has taught us that South Yorks.Police could not be trusted in the 1980s. We need to be sure that they and all other forces can be trusted now.

yggdrasil Tue 01-Nov-16 16:47:53

And when an Orgreave enquiry was first mooted, it was after Hillsborough and it would have to wait till that was finished. Well, now it is. No excuse for not holding it now. If only to make public what anyone anywhere near involved already knows

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 19:26:42

I happen to know ex-miners who at the height of the strike were deliberately taunted by police waving wage packets in their faces and shouting that they were enjoying the massive amounts of overtime. I know miners who had horses ridden into them by police.

We do need to get to the bottom of this although I am not sure whether this would necessitate a "full" public inquiry and the huge costs that will go with this. Can we really trust the police (as a whole)? I agree with VQ that the refusal of any kind of inquiry smells of a cover up.

vampirequeen Tue 01-Nov-16 23:33:56

To my shame my cousin was a police officer. He enjoyed the strike and kept his wallet full of cash which he flashed around to show how profitable it was for him. Worse still he told me that he'd seen Met officers snatching men from the picket lines and breaking their fingers one at a time. He did nothing to stop it and didn't even report it to his superiors. A police officer is supposed to uphold the law not stand around and watch it being broken. I hated him then and I still hate him now. Some things cannot be forgiven or forgotten.

If you think my attitude it OTT the coward also spent twenty years being respectable and a good guy whilst regularly beating up his wife and children. He was and still is scum.

Eloethan Tue 01-Nov-16 23:54:47

I don't understand the reasoning behind this rejection of an inquiry - that nobody died and nobody was unfairly charged. Former policemen have apparently stated that they were encouraged to use violence against the miners and to alter statements to discredit the miners and justify police actions. Surely that is reason enough to have a proper inquiry.

vampirequeen Wed 02-Nov-16 08:41:56

They obviously have something to hide.

Could it include:
Police officers colluding when writing statements
Police officers targeting and beating up shop stewards and organisers
Soldiers dressed in police uniforms
The excessive use of force especially the use of horses to cavalry charge at the fleeing miners

Maggie was determined to destroy the miners at any cost. Her shining goddess image would seriously be tarnished if anyone ever allowed to see what she said and ordered at the time.

Anniebach Wed 02-Nov-16 08:57:12

MI5 on picket lines

vampirequeen Wed 02-Nov-16 09:21:27

Phone tapping and surveillance.

My ex was a hospital porter and was on strike in 1979. The picket lines were often filmed and photographed by journalists. One day a journalist pointed out a film and photography crew and told the lads on the picket line that they weren't from any media organisation. The lads were under surveillance by the security services for having the audacity to commit the legal action of withdrawing their labour and picketing.

A few years later Maggie had tested all her ways and means and brought them all to bear on the miners.

trisher Wed 02-Nov-16 10:01:50

This thread is suddenly bringing back the 80s for me. My ex was active in his trade union and we were sure for a while that our phone was tapped. We joked about it at the time but there was a serious side and I wonder now if an inquiry would open up a complete can of worms.

Anniebach Wed 02-Nov-16 10:20:22

I was active throughout the miners strike, I reported and reported the iligal acts of the police , ignored. The taunts were vile, the TVs cameras always knew where there would be trouble - advised in advance .

gillybob Wed 02-Nov-16 11:42:43

Of course they were tipped off. I remember seeing convoys of buses with shields up at the windows full of "police" and I remember wondering where are all these police officers coming from?

Yes VQ I know miners who were taunted in exactly that way.

durhamjen Wed 02-Nov-16 19:57:15

I'll definitely help crowdfund this if necessary.

vampirequeen Thu 03-Nov-16 09:42:49

A lot of trade unionists had their phones tapped at that time. My mam and dad's was. It used to amuse us to think how many hours of tape they had used recording conversations between me and my mam discussing my new baby's nappy contents etc. grin

yggdrasil Thu 03-Nov-16 14:07:01

My ex was BACM, not NUM. Along with NACODS they kept the pits open with maintenance so return would be possible. Our phone was tapped too.

gillybob Thu 03-Nov-16 14:17:45

Blimey. I had no idea about the phone tapping.

Yes I think I would consider it too durhamjen although other than bringing it out into the open and a backhanded apology, I have no idea what could be achieved.

trisher Thu 03-Nov-16 20:23:54

I'll help crowdfund as well durhamjen.
gillybob I think a real sense of closure would be achieved for all those affected by the events. But I also suspect that a lot of things would be revealed about the role of government, the involvement of the military and the security services and how the police were used that will shock many people. It is the extent of the operations and the people who were involved that this government want to keep under wraps. It will tarnish Maggie's memory and prove how underhand the Conservatives are.

vampirequeen Fri 04-Nov-16 08:28:19

Very true trisher

gillybob Fri 04-Nov-16 08:48:15

Yes trisher I did say that it would bring it all out into the open but it cannot change anything can it? Heads will not roll. Those involved will not be stripped of their gold plated police/military/government pensions will they?

As for Maggie's memory, I don't think it could be tarnished any more than it already is in most mining communities. Do you know there were people in my town who held parties to "celebrate" her death, totally sick imo, whatever you might think of her.