More gains for Libs

I don't imagine there will be any more referendums ( general public) but think it will be all sorted out in Parliament.

We're the people duped? Did they let themselves be duped? Who knows for certain what people thought or what their reasons were for voting as they did. There ARE some who did their research, listened to the arguments and made a rational decision . That said, I think the arguments as put forward by LEAVE were frequently less than scrupulous (that £350 billion) and I also think the REMAIN campaign were complacent, never believing the vote would go against them. With a few exceptions (Ruth Davidson in the TV debate I saw) they were very poor at putting the record straight.
However, there were also those who couldn't be bothered to look beyond the headlines or research the matter for themselves. Do you remember that excellent video which at least one past member said she "couldn't' be bothered" to watch because it was all of 20 minutes long, presumably preferring to stick with the headlines?

PS the referendum was not about going into Europe.

Ankers It is so difficult to reply to you, because you are so inconsistent.

One minute you write "But people change their minds all the time dd. It could well be different again in 6 months and 6 months after that."

Then you write "A lot of people who voted for Brexit have felt much the same for 40 years! Hardly fickle!!"

So which is it?

Many of the people who voted in 1973 or whenever are still alive today. Some in my family.
And they feel duped. And havent stopped feeling that way. So not fickle.

The world has changed a lot now, people are kept up to date and better informed than they were then, and the young especially are apt to change their minds a lot more nowadays.

So both are true dd.

But it was you who claimed that people change their minds all the time!

It is actually not true that people were duped in 1973. Some of the old headlines and claims have been dragged out. It would appear that some people didn't understand, despite being given the facts, or are lying about how they voted in 1973, because the numbers don't add up.

I voted in 1973 and am still alive.

Off to bash my head agianst a brick wall, because you clearly don't understand democracy and the point I was making ankers.

*against

I was on the point of commenting that many of us who voted to go into the Common Market are still alive but you beat me to it DD. Sometimes find myself losing the will, however
When between 8.01 and 8.04 did this change from Brexit to entering the Common Market? Those elusive goalposts again.

The people I know who feel duped are not stupid by the way.

They had no idea of all the things that were to come.

They were sold a bit of a pup.

Things kept getting added on and added on to the whole idea.

I will google sometime how many rules and regulations have been added since it came into existence.

And there have been no votes on it since then.

By my reckoning, to make it fair, there should be no referendum about it again until about 2059.

#slightjokebutalsoslightnotjoke

Out of interest how do you or others think some are lying about how they voted in 1973?
Many will be dead now and cannot answer.
Rewriting history perhaps?

Is it a ruse for you and others to say that

A "ruse"?

I can't follow what Tim Farron says on the Free Movement of People/Single Market position.

It's like Corbyn's has no affirmative position.

I have tried but every interview I watch he contradicts himself.

I really do think he is 'the nicest political leader', certainly not Corbyn who is given the presumed title but I
genuinely wish I could take him seriously.

I will google sometime how many rules and regulations have been added since it came into existence.

This takes a slightly different angle but you might find it interesting, Ankers.

Bear in mind that regulations relating to standards of traded goods and services would be necessary whether we were trading with the EU bloc or other countries. One would hope that the UK would not accept the importation of goods which didn't meet our standards, or vice versa.

www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/what-percentage-of-laws-come-from-the-eu/

Last year's referendum was only advisory - a snapshot of opinion on a single day when 37% of the electorate were duped by the liescof the disgraceful Leave campaign.

We are supposed to live in a representative democracy where political decisions are made by our elected politicians. If only they had the courage of their convictions and were prepared to chuck out brexit and not be bullied by the right wing press with their threats of mob rule

Unfortunately it looks as if most MPs , no matter what they know and believe, are likely to follow Theresa May's lead and cave in to the brexiteers.

Tim Farron is a strong leader, not just for the LibDems, but for a big section of the population who understand the many advantages of remaining in the EU. His policy of having a second referendum after the terms are known iis eminently sensible and could save us from buying a pig in a poke.

I don't think that Farron is a strong leader at all.But even if he was, I don't happen to agree about Brexit.It doesn't matter how many times a poster says the referendum was 'only advisory' .....the result was always going to be upheld, and it certainly will be.
There was a pretty disgraceful Remain campaign as well.
We needed a referendum to get us into the 'common market' and we needed a referendum to take us out of the EU.Roll on triggering article 50!

Thank you MaizieD

I tried googling but gave up. The list would be so enormous!

Last year's referendum was only advisory -
So was Scotland's?

So was the 1973 referendum?

a snapshot of opinion on a single day
So was the 1973 one. And the Scottish one. That is what referendums are.

37% of the electorate were duped by the liescof the disgraceful Leave campaign.

Cant be bothered to discuss that. It has been discussed ad infitum on gransnet already.

Very true Ankers not only ad infinitum but ad nauseam!

There was a pretty disgraceful Remain campaign as well.

Quite. One of the worst bits for me was the action of David Cameron and what the civil servants were allowed to do and not allowed to do.
I was never his biggest fan to begin with.

rosesarered

No, we didn't need a referendum to get us into the Common Market. We had a referendum to stay in.

The UK joined the EEC in 1973 after Parliament, under the Heath Government voted the UK IN. In 1975, under the Wilson Government, the Referendum vote was to stay IN or come OUT. In common with Tony Benn, Jeremy Corbyn and 33% of those voting, I voted leave for reasons of sovereignty.

Several of my friends who voted Remain in 1975 have said that thy voted to join the Common Market and did not vote for an ever-closer Union. They voted Leave in 2016, as did I. As I have said before, we are not stupid or racist; and we were not duped in 2016. We did not swallow all the Leave propaganda any more than we swallowed all the Remain threats. Some of the worst predictions have already proved wrong and while nobody can judge the future, so far not so bad.

It remains to be seen how the EU will do without the UK. The Eurozone has not performed well to date. I have heard it described as a 3 legged table because a monetary union without some centralised fiscal and banking control is unlikely to survive. The vocal Remainers seem unwilling to discuss the weaknesses in the EU.

Tim Farron might have proved his leadership quality in the debate on the Referendum Bill by clarifying just what the Referendum meant and by requiring the Government to prepare for either outcome. Personally, I find him profoundly unconvincing.

Before I get jumped on, I should not have said: In common with Tony Benn, Jeremy Corbyn and 33% of those voting, I voted leave for reasons of sovereignty.

Of course, I have no idea why 33% of people voted OUT in 1975, just as we have little idea why voters voted the way they did in 2016. I do know why I voted. I voted to leave the EU because I believe the EU is too centralised, too bureaucratic, too undemocratic and likely to fail, economically and ultimately politically. It needs reform but, like the lady, the EU seems not for turning.

Several of my friends who voted Remain in 1975 have said that thy voted to join the Common Market and did not vote for an ever-closer Union

Absolutely.

And trying to rewrite history while people are still alive is silly behaviour and futile.

Tim Farron's comments on Theresa May's speech

www.google.co.uk/search?q=tim+farron&oq=tim&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0l4.2310j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Sorry if the link is wrong.

Tim Farron said: 'Theresa May has confirmed Britain is heading for a Hard Brexit. She claimed people voted to Leave the Single Market. They didn't. She has made the choice to do massive damage to the British economy. Theresa May also made clear that she will deny the people a vote on the final deal. So instead of a democratic decision by the people in the country, she wants a stitch-up by politicians in Westminster. The people voted for departure, they should be given a vote on the destination. This is a theft of democracy.'