Article 50

I found it quite strange listening to David Davis saying our best years are yet to come.
He's been an MP since 1987, was John Major's Minister of State for Europe from 1994 to 1997.
He's been chair of the public accounts committee, chairman of the Conservative party, and various other chairs.
Cameron didn't rate him much.
And he's older than me!
What's he been doing if he expects things to get better?

Looks like about 20 years worth of expensive and difficult negotiating to me.
The Irish question means that whatever anyone suggests re borders, customs and immigration will come up against big problems
Free movement between Irish Republic and UK dates back to a time before the two countries joined the EU. This includes the right to vote in all elections, which is different to the rest of the EU. The open border between N and S is part of the Good Friday agreement.
And as to customs - a lorry full of N Ireland beef, travelling to France, via Dublin port, would have to cross a border into the South, then another border into the UK at Holyhead, then another border at the French coast. Currently they can drive through with no customs tariffs or paperwork. The ports are not designed to cope with long queues.

Breiteers are not going to get what they want about EU migration either.

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/no-instant-cut%e2%80%8b-eu-migration-brexit/

Keir Starmer said it was a wish list, not an action plan.
We don't always get what we wish for, do we?

Looks like about 20 years of expensive and difficult negotiating to me
We are going to start trade talks now with South Africa so that it's already to go in 2 years time. And the eu know that there's bugger all they can do about it.

I'm sure I've got South African grapes and wine in my fridge.

Free movement between Irish Republic and UK dates back to a time before the two countries joined the EU

LOL it goes back much further than that!

Britain and Ireland have a relationship of kinship , much as the Scandinavian countries do.

i1.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170201-Martinez-comment.jpg?w=475

We already trade with South Africa, and guess what? The EU hasn't stopped us...

The free trade agreement under which we trade with South Africa was negotiated by the EU. Also FTAs with some 50 other countries.
We also trade with other countries, notably the US, without any EU interference.

Interested to read that the white paper has indicated that immigration will not be under control any time soon and certainly not in 2019 and beyond. How on earth are they going to sell that to the Brexiters?

All trade agreements under which we operate at present are under the auspices of the EU. We have/had no trade negotiators of our own.

Please read this. It explains what the ultimate goals were right at the beginning of the creation of the EU experiment.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255506/Monumental-deceit-How-politicians-lied-lied-true-purpose-European-behemoth.html

Seems to me that Britain has escaped by the skin of its teeth and brought our country back from the brink.

Don't forget it is the Daily Mail

As we see from Cabinet papers and other documents of the early Sixties, Prime Minister Harold Macmillan and his ‘Europe Minister’ Edward Heath were put completely in the picture about the secret ‘grand plan’. But in June 1961 the Cabinet formally agreed that it must not be revealed to the British people.

In Macmillan’s words, to admit ‘the political objectives’ of the Rome Treaty would raise ‘problems of public relations’ so ‘considerable’ that they should be kept under wraps. It was vital to emphasise only the economic advantages of British entry.

Thus did Macmillan and Heath become drawn into complicity with that same web of deceit which was driving the ‘project’ itself (which is why we called our book The Great Deception).

Twice in the Sixties Britain made failed attempts to join the project — but within weeks of Heath entering Downing Street in 1970, he applied to Brussels a third time. Scarcely had negotiations begun than he learned that his future partners were already discussing the next steps along their path to full integration: a single currency, European defence forces, a common foreign policy.

Heath immediately sent word to Brussels pleading for all this to be kept quiet, because it might blow the gaffe with British voters.

For two years the negotiations continued, with Heath handing over all he was asked for, from giving away Britain’s fishing waters, the richest in the world, to become ‘a common European resource’, to the betrayal of our Commonwealth partners by excluding their goods from what had been for many their main export market.

Finally, Heath got what he was after: entry to the club — although he still pretended that the Common Market was little more than a trading arrangement.

On the day we entered, he told the British people on television that any fears that ‘we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty’ were ‘completely unjustified’.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255506/Monumental-deceit-How-politicians-lied-lied-true-purpose-European-behemoth.html#ixzz4Xd6yNjlG

Sigh...so if it's in the Daily Mail it must be incorrrect, eh whitewave?

Don't forget it's the Daily Mail. Dacre has a huge agenda. Even going against Rothemere the owner.

No ana not necessarily incorrect but I simply said remember Dacres agenda. There are always alternative views available

For those who scoff that 'this was the daily mail' you are wrong. This stuff was on the tv, it is in the archives of bbc, it is in all the national papers and there have been books written about how we were deliberately deceived. Do the research, I have and I have other links that back this up if you would care to read them?

MacMillan was a great pragmatist. I can see that he would wish to supress knowledge of 'the grand plan as being inimical to our pretty desperate need to improve our economic situation by joining the Common Market but it is also entirely possible that he considered that the 'grand plan' would ultimately prove to be unachievable.

It's interesting that the White Paper on the Brexit Strategy is at pains to say that Britain has not lost Parliamentary Sovereignty even if people 'feel' that it has.

Yes but even if I accept it is true, which I don't as I think it is slanting history. It no longer matters. What does matter very much indeed is the future.

In fact if you read this you will realise that we were taken in to the EU illegally!

www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

So if we were do we need to come out as it were?!

I suspect that we were stitched up by Heath, he was desperate to join.All too late now ( though would make interesting reading, have to look it up.)

There are Government documents to back up these stories, they are not made up by the newspapers (any newspaper) they are fact, they are historical and they are fact.

I agree, it is now the future that matters. That is why people should stop running this country down. They should stop all this doom and gloom and look forward, in fact not just look, work towards, a brighter future for our children and grandchildren.

All this moaning and talking down will put their future at risk, every time someone says this MIGHT happen and that MIGHT happen the market wobbles.

Talk this country up for goodness sake, have a bit of faith in the British people and work together to make coming out of the EU the right decision for Britain.