Article 50

I think I started a thread about the burkini ban on French beaches and asked if I would have to strip off to respect good morals.

The centre of Great Britain (as opposed to the UK) is:

^the centre is a location 7 km north west of Dunsop Bridge, Lancashire, by Whitendale Hanging Stones on Brennard Farm in the Forest of Bowland (SD 64188.3, 56541.43).:
www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2014/08/where-is-the-centre-of-great-britain-2/

London should be its own city state

If we can cut it off, setting it adrift into La Manche , then I'll consider that! It goes without saying there'd be no 'free movement' As you say "radical things do happen in revolutionary times".

Thats not a very responsible attitude. Take the same attitude to your household budget and you'll end up in debt.

A country's budget is not the same as a household budget. It's a bit complex to explain but I found this blog by Michael Rosen which puts it into fairly simple terms:

b) a national economy is not like running a household because of i) the link between spending and income. When a government spends, some of its spending goes on paying people who then pay tax back to the government with what they're paid. That can't happen in a household budget. ii) What's more some government spending is on projects that generate wealth - which cause new businesses to be created e.g. a new railway may well cause new businesses to be needed to make stuff to create, service the railway and then to be created near where the railway is. Again, not like a household. Or, indeed,(iii) government spending on hospitals and schools can 'cure' people or educate them so that their 'labour power' is valuable enough to be able to go to work, and pay taxes i.e. income to the government. And (iv) in the case of the UK economy, it can issue currency ('print money'/ make 'magic money'. This will alter the value of money itself i.e. devalue it, make it worth less in the international currency markets. This will make UK goods cheaper when non-UK countries buy them. Issuing currency will nearly always also enrich the rich. The UK have issued £350 billion in the last 5 years. Saying that the UK was 'like' Greece or Portugal was a lie, is a lie. Those countries can't issue currency. That's why, when BBC interviewers etc keep saying we were or are 'living beyond our means' it's meaningless and misleading.

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/running-economy-is-like-running.html

Before anyone starts muttering about Rosen being Leftwing and biased can I point out that what he is saying is a matter of fact and most economists will tell you the same, though in less understandable language.

If anyone wants to doubt what Rosen says I googled 'why is a country's budget not the same as a household budget?' plenty of results all saying much the same thing

tinyurl.com/hmhnjg5

This household budget analogy is a big con, particularly when used by Tory governments to justify cutting public services (Maggie Thatcher was very keen on her 'prudent housewife' image in this respect). It's a jolly good con though as people intuitively feel it to be right; it's kept people voting Tory for years and seems to have helped to get us out of Europe.i8

The most significant continual payment is for access to the single market. Businesses are arguing strongly for this access.

The €60bn is for projects to which we have committed.

I seem to remember that York is the centre of the United Kingdom - but I may have dreamed that.

I quite fancy York, SuzieD, York having been the second city, although the people who live there might object to the expansion.

Durham is the Land of the Prince Bishops. It was allowed to keep its Prince Bishops by William the Conqueror, as he could not subdue North Humber Land. If anyone tries to conquer us in the cities, we have the whole of Northumbria and the Dales to hide in and harry the invaders.
Also the cradle of Christianity in this country.

I seem to remember lots of condemnation, there was a thread about it on here.

Not wanting to criticise other European countries for their somewhat dubious way of conducting business?!! I think the worse was France not allowing Muslim women to wear the bathing costumes they feel comfortable in on some French beaches! Absolutely deplorable and outrageous - but of course no particular condemnation! Another good reason to leave this hypocritical, outdated apology for democracy!

I agree with DJ London should be its own city state and the capital could move to Manchester or Sunderland or somewhere further north. London could remain in the Eu and continue to offer world wide financial services. Everywhere else in England moans about policies being too London centric so they could suit themselves. All those non natives clogging up the capital would not be a drain on the rest of the country . Can't see a problem with that and Brexiteers would love it ( yes my tongue is in my cheek and I am not holding my breath, but radical things do happen in revolutionary times)

To say that the BBC has tried to stop brexit is absurd. I do not believe we would ever have got into this mess if the BBC had not relentlessly promoted Nigel Farage.

See the BBC bias thread.

It is expected to cost €60bn in order to leave.

Yeh its a 'one off' an investment in our future as a country and a nation !

"I do find it odd that people get so passionate about the UK contribution to the EU budget. It only actually amounts to just over 1% of UK expenditure. We spend more on foreign aid than on the EU."

Thats not a very responsible attitude. Take the same attitude to your household budget and you'll end up in debt.

Doh I forgot , after fifty years in the EU we ARE in debt, £1.64 trillion, 78K for everyone in Britain.

Lets spend just 1% of our earnings on decorating our neighbors house eh, that sounds like a good idea!

It is expected to cost €60bn in order to leave.

The white paper indicates that it is expected that we will continue to make contributions in order to participate in in such things as cross border policing and other areas like scientific research and research. These contributions are not expected to be insubstantial.

The £350m has disappeared.

JP Morgan criticises the shallowness of the Government's White paper.
uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-white-paper-jpmorgan-shallow-lacks-detail-2017-2
There has been concern this week about EURATOM - the government seem to think that this is part of the EU - it is not. If the UK were to leave this important body it would leave the nuclear industry high and dry.
www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/feb/01/brexit-nuclear-eu-euratom-treaty-clare-moody
And leaving bodies like the EU medicines agency will not only remove an important office from London but mean that the UK would have to go to the considerable expense of setting up it's own new Medicines regulation authority.
And so on.
Not moaning but worrying.

I do find it odd that people get so passionate about the UK contribution to the EU budget. It only actually amounts to just over 1% of UK expenditure. We spend more on foreign aid than on the EU.

I suspect that we will lose far more than we save by leaving.

Depends on your point of view Yorkshire I mostly think the BBC is for Brexit - they certainly gave them more airtime before the vote - so maybe they are just neutral

GracesGranMK2, how exactly was my post 'rude'?

It's reactions like yours that put people off posting at all. You have no idea who I was referring to, you just chose to make it personal. That in itself is rude.

rosesarered Independence for Scotland has always been top of the agenda for Mrs Sturgeon (who seems to think she is Queen of Scotland flying in to London in her private jet). I do not believe for one minute, as you say, that the majority of Scottish people will vote for it. It is pie in the sky.

You have to hand it to her for trying though, but it is her dream, no-one else' I think.

If you think the BBC is meant to be neutral think again! The BBC has done everything it can to stop BREXIT. All their political programmes are biased towards staying in the European Union.

Exactly so Yorkshire but anyway I doubt very much that if there was a referendum on independence any time soon, that the people would vote for it.

Why does Mrs Sturgeon think that Scotland can survive on its own? Not all people in Scotland want to break away from UK and if she is expecting us to support her in any way once she has made the break she is kidding herself. The Government hand-outs will stop and Scottish children will suffer when their education budget is cut. Their Health Service will suffer when the money from London stops. When she floods Scotland with immigrants as demanded by free movement of people doesn't she realise that wages will drop through the floor right across the board, because people from these EU countries will work for a pittance so the legal minimum wage will be ignored? Does she not know that there is a clause in the agreement that says she can only control this and that, but she cannot control whether we come out or stay in the EU? Or anything to do with Defence for example? The people have spoken, including those in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland and they said OUT so OUT it will be. She has been turned away by the EU, Norway, and Ireland, because no-one wants to speak to the head of a devolved state, they want to speak to the person who is top of the pile, and that happens to be Theresa May at the moment not Mrs Sturgeon.

But there is countrywide moaning! Not rude to either want it to stop or to think it will never stop.

How rude Ana.

The moaning will never stop, Yorkshiregel.