Article 50

Not wanting to criticise other European countries for their somewhat dubious way of conducting business?!! I think the worse was France not allowing Muslim women to wear the bathing costumes they feel comfortable in on some French beaches! Absolutely deplorable and outrageous - but of course no particular condemnation! Another good reason to leave this hypocritical, outdated apology for democracy!

I seem to remember lots of condemnation, there was a thread about it on here.

I quite fancy York, SuzieD, York having been the second city, although the people who live there might object to the expansion.

Durham is the Land of the Prince Bishops. It was allowed to keep its Prince Bishops by William the Conqueror, as he could not subdue North Humber Land. If anyone tries to conquer us in the cities, we have the whole of Northumbria and the Dales to hide in and harry the invaders.
Also the cradle of Christianity in this country.

I seem to remember that York is the centre of the United Kingdom - but I may have dreamed that.

The most significant continual payment is for access to the single market. Businesses are arguing strongly for this access.

The €60bn is for projects to which we have committed.

Thats not a very responsible attitude. Take the same attitude to your household budget and you'll end up in debt.

A country's budget is not the same as a household budget. It's a bit complex to explain but I found this blog by Michael Rosen which puts it into fairly simple terms:

b) a national economy is not like running a household because of i) the link between spending and income. When a government spends, some of its spending goes on paying people who then pay tax back to the government with what they're paid. That can't happen in a household budget. ii) What's more some government spending is on projects that generate wealth - which cause new businesses to be created e.g. a new railway may well cause new businesses to be needed to make stuff to create, service the railway and then to be created near where the railway is. Again, not like a household. Or, indeed,(iii) government spending on hospitals and schools can 'cure' people or educate them so that their 'labour power' is valuable enough to be able to go to work, and pay taxes i.e. income to the government. And (iv) in the case of the UK economy, it can issue currency ('print money'/ make 'magic money'. This will alter the value of money itself i.e. devalue it, make it worth less in the international currency markets. This will make UK goods cheaper when non-UK countries buy them. Issuing currency will nearly always also enrich the rich. The UK have issued £350 billion in the last 5 years. Saying that the UK was 'like' Greece or Portugal was a lie, is a lie. Those countries can't issue currency. That's why, when BBC interviewers etc keep saying we were or are 'living beyond our means' it's meaningless and misleading.

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/running-economy-is-like-running.html

Before anyone starts muttering about Rosen being Leftwing and biased can I point out that what he is saying is a matter of fact and most economists will tell you the same, though in less understandable language.

If anyone wants to doubt what Rosen says I googled 'why is a country's budget not the same as a household budget?' plenty of results all saying much the same thing

tinyurl.com/hmhnjg5

This household budget analogy is a big con, particularly when used by Tory governments to justify cutting public services (Maggie Thatcher was very keen on her 'prudent housewife' image in this respect). It's a jolly good con though as people intuitively feel it to be right; it's kept people voting Tory for years and seems to have helped to get us out of Europe.i8

London should be its own city state

If we can cut it off, setting it adrift into La Manche , then I'll consider that! It goes without saying there'd be no 'free movement' As you say "radical things do happen in revolutionary times".

The centre of Great Britain (as opposed to the UK) is:

^the centre is a location 7 km north west of Dunsop Bridge, Lancashire, by Whitendale Hanging Stones on Brennard Farm in the Forest of Bowland (SD 64188.3, 56541.43).:
www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2014/08/where-is-the-centre-of-great-britain-2/

I think I started a thread about the burkini ban on French beaches and asked if I would have to strip off to respect good morals.

Think topless will do Jalima!

Ooh no there would be free movement into London, we'd be in the Eu remember. May have to have a border wall round the M 25 to stop those trying to break in.

Shouldn't worry suzie there's going to be free movement in the rest of the UK anyway for the foreseeable future.

Oh such larks. We're could end up without the single market but with free movement. How to please nobody Theresa. Go for it. Could become an even more unpopular ex PM than your predecessor.

yorkshiregel first of all Scotland is NOT subsidised by England ...do you really think a government who cant subsidise a spare bedroom would subsidise a whole country ? We send OUR money south and get a percentage of it back with the majority witheld by westminster...it has always been this way for over 300 years ,up until the 1920's the figures were published and showed that we only got back 33% of OUR revenue.here are some facts for youScotland represents just 8.3% of the UK population. Remember that number 8.3%
We have the following share of UK resources -
- 32% Land area
- 61% Sea area
- 90% Surface fresh water
- 65% North Sea natural gas production
- 96.5% North Sea crude oil production
- 47% Open cast coal production
- 81% Coal reserves at sites not yet in production
- 62% Timber production (green tonnes)
- 46% Total forest area (hectares)
- 92% Hydro electric production
- 40% Wind, wave, solar production
- 60% Fish Landings (total by Scottish vessels)
- 55% Fish Landings (total from Scottish waters)
- 30% Beef herd (breeding stock)
- 20% Sheep herd (breeding flock)
- 9% Dairy herd
- 10% Pig herd
- 15% Cereal holdings (hectares)
- 20% potato holdings (hectares)
All with 8.3% of the population!
There are very few countries in the WORLD that rival Scotland's resources per head and in such rich diversity. We absolutely, unequivocally can be an extremely successful independent country.
Last year Scotland generated 56.8 billion in taxes from everything that we generate in the country eg oil, gas, income tax, export tax etc yet we got 26.8 billion from Westminster to run the country for the same year.
Does that sound to you like we're going to have any kind of "Black Hole" ?

if you add to that our whisky industry that earns £135asecond and which isn't counted as a Scottish export as it goes through English ports I'm sure you'll see that we can manage just fine without westminster .WHEN WE GET INDEPENDENCE we will also get our share of all UK assetts in return for the 10% of the UK debt taken in OUR name ...we cant actually have debs as we cant borrow ...our budgets BALANCE or are in surplus EVERY YEAR

THE IGNORANCE ON HERE IS ASTOUNDING !!!

You're absolutely not allowed to say that, paddyann

When Scotland is independent and in the EU England will have to rebuild Hadrians Wall to stop all the migrants, that's in addition to the M25 wall for free independent London.

Lots of work for Polish builders

As they're clearly more than able to support themselves, instead of just whining on and on about it why doesn't Scotland just have another ' once in a lifetime?!! referendum and, 'In the name of God, go' and give us all a bit of peace. If the whole of the UK were to be allowed a vote it would be a done deal for sure!! The relief would be immense!

Paddyann I think you need to remind us what is devolved to Scotland and therefore what has to come out of the £26 billion. e.g. I don't think it covers a contribution to running the armed forces or foreign embassies does it?
Because if you kept all that revenue, you'd have a lot more things to pay for? Or have I got that wrong?

If Scotland stay in the EU and we rebuild Hadrian's wall I'll be on the Scottish side of it. Not that I'm complaining, just pointing out that the border has fluctuated over the years. Personally I'd be very happy to stay in the EU with Scotland.

The Scottish border is not Hadrian's Wall, although I wouldn't mind the border being Hadrian's Wall, as I'd only have to move a few miles further north.

This is an interesting article by Prescott.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-painted-being-bitterly-divided-9759381

Labour was more divided in the seventies when we joined the EU.

Perhaps they could relocate Hadrian's wall to a bit further South, dj, then we wouldn't even have to move

M62?
The original Northumbria?
Lots of people in Yorkshire want to join us.