Article 50

daphnedill my post was in response to MaizeD who asked for examples.

I agree we need to make a good deal to benefit both the British and the EU. I do not see why we cannot do that. If the EU refuse to negotiate with us once we are out it will be to their loss. We will still be able to trade with EU countries without being in the EU.

I know two people who represented the UK on EU standardisation committees, one on communications engineering standards and one on medical laboratory practice. They are both professional scientists, not civil servants.

They each sat round a table with fellow scientists from the other European countries to discuss and agree standardisation. These people were not bureaucrats, but experts (if you'll excuse that word) in their field. It is absolutely essential that these scientific standards are agreed, for the sake of safety, research and technological progress. They had minimal administrative support, but the actual decisions were made by the experts.

If we leave the EU we no longer have a place round the table discussing these two areas and so many more where co-operation is essential. We will be powerless to influence the standards but we will still have to abide by them. To do otherwise would be suicidal. Far from "taking back" control we will have relinquished control.

Needless to say these two people, who used to be proud to sit at a table with a little union jack in front of them, are now horrified that our country is to be reduced to this and both voted strongly to Remain.

Errmm, Yorkshiregel, we're on our way to leaving. We don't need 20 reasons.

What we need to do now is make the best of it and make sure that our own politicians don't use it as an excuse to ride roughshod over our rights.

Here's an example of how leaving the EU will lead to more paperwork and could leave to a loss of jobs:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2017/feb/02/if-eastern-europeans-leave-britain-after-brexit-what-happens-video

John Harris has been filming a series of interviews with various people around the UK about how the referendum will affect them. Some of them were filmed before the referendum. There's one from Stoke, which is very relevant.

It did not surprise me that a leave voter thought that the ECHR had something to do with the EU. This is typical of the misleading propaganda which many chose to believe because it suited them , without checking to see if it was true.

uk.businessinsider.com/reaction-to-supreme-court-article-50-brexit-ruling-2017-1

interfering in UK business:

www.ornamentalfish.org/uncatogorized/say-goodbye-to-water-hyacinth-as-eu-bans-the-plant-from-uk-garden-ponds

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2013/sep/26/eu-regulation-garden-plants

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2013/sep/26/eu-regulation-garden-plants

20 more reasons to leave:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

york Aticle 50 is not irreversible. Providing the UK has not made a final agreement then we can change our minds. I agree it is most unlikely, but there is that let out clause if we decide that Brexit isn't worth the candle.

MaizeD, you as well as I know we cannot make any decisions about anything until we get EU approval

These are matters to do with trade agreements. There will always be regulations on trade whether we are in or out of the EU.

I was thinking more on the lines of domestic policy as you are asserting that we are unable to make any decisions without EU approval. What domestic legislation do we have to get permission from the EU to implement?

When we come out of the EU we will be able to control our own borders, deport criminals or terrorists without the squeal of 'I am entitled to a family life',

I take it you are referring to the European Court of Human Rights here?

The ECHR is nothing to do with the EU. We are not withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) (formally the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms) is an international treaty to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms in Europe. Drafted in 1950 by the then newly formed Council of Europe,[1] the convention entered into force on 3 September 1953. All Council of Europe member states are party to the Convention and new members are expected to ratify the convention at the earliest opportunity.[2]

The Convention established the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR).

tinyurl.com/h9yphvj

MaizeD, you as well as I know we cannot make any decisions about anything until we get EU approval. Mrs May could not deport terrorists for example nor could she stop them at the border. We cannot stop Spanish decimating our fish stock with their trawlers. When we come out of the EU we can re-instate our 12 mile limit and our fishing fleets can be built up again. There are so many examples, I am not going to give more, I will leave that up to others to do.

The EU is in a fit of peak at the moment because they can see their dream of a country called 'Europe' is slipping away. They have brought this upon themselves because they slammed one too many doors in Mr Cameron's face and humiliated him over the re-negotiation

Exactly

Whitewave I think you will find that once triggered Article50 is irreversible. Final!

Please do not cling on to the thought that there will be a way to wreck Article50 being triggered. Many have tried to throw a spanner in the works and the MPs/Parliament still voted to trigger it.

and not being able to make our own laws or decisions without going to the EU for approval.

Would you be kind enough to give us some examples of this happening?

When we come out of the EU we will be able to control our own borders, deport criminals or terrorists without the squeal of 'I am entitled to a family life', (go back to your country and take your family with you), men will not be able to bring 5 wives to this country because it is illegal (stands to reason that a man takes 5 wives there may be 5 children every year). At the moment our laws forbid this so they have got around that problem by saying that one of these women is his 'official wife' the rest are not but they can still come over.

The EU is in a fit of peak at the moment because they can see their dream of a country called 'Europe' is slipping away. They have brought this upon themselves because they slammed one too many doors in Mr Cameron's face and humiliated him over the re-negotiation.

When we come out as we surely will, we can trade with whomever we wish and EU countries will be included in that if they wish. Germany will still want to sell us their cars for example, France will still want to sell us their wine as will Italy. We can sell our things to those countries as well. If our farmers want casual labour in the summer for the fields what is to stop them advertising in European countries, which is what they do now anyway and that is why so many of them pop up here and then go home in winter. They will still be allowed to do that.

What we have to make sure of though is that when people come here to work they are not exploited by gangs of criminals and that they are paid a fair wage alongside our own people. We have seen wages across the board plummet because of these gangs bringing in cheap labour and paying them below the minimum wage.

A50 only indicates an intention, we are still in the EU

It isn't just about immigration and free trade, it is also about loss of sovereignty and not being able to make our own laws or decisions without going to the EU for approval. Loss of identity in fact. What they were after and have been from day one was to make European countries, including the UK, one big country called 'Europe'. They also tried and are still trying to form a European army, which I think sounded alarm bells. What is wrong with NATO and the United Nations? It is they that have kept the peace, not this EU Union which has changed so much Mr Heath would not recognize it these days. We were conned then, we were NOT conned a second time.

Now we and Parliament have voted to trigger Article50 can we hope that there will be no more talking this country down making the Markets wobble? Start supporting and taking pride in UK and things will get better, and that has already started to happen. We are still 'in the Market' until Mrs May triggers Article50 but that is going to happen whether people like it or not.

It can be sold and resold without even being delivered. All speculation.

Almost certainly. Grain gets traded on commodities and futures markets

Thank you for taking the time to explain WW .So basically we sell our own grain at £xxx and buy it back (effectively from ourselves, but there will be someone in the city getting rich off the back of it) in $xxx ?

So there will be a grain market in London (I assume) where everything is bought and sold. So the farmer or the middleman will sell and whoever wants it will buy. They will have a dollar account. Converted to sterling.

Same with loads of stuff.

Stuff is also forward bought on speculation. Which is why fuel suppliers should not immediately put the price up at the same time the market price goes up.

Thank you WW I get that, but the grain (in particular) is grown here. Do we sell it to ourselves and then buy is back again? I am really confused.

It's the world wide currency. Like oil and other commodities

The only favourable terms in trading with the US will be favourable terms FOR the US.

Slightly off track here, but can anyone explain to me why we trade our own home grown grain in US dollars? Weetabix are apparently putting their prices up due to the fluctuation in the price of grain (grown in the UK) but priced in dollars. Why are we allowing this to continue?

What I can't understand is why, if we are leaving the EU and do not want free trade or free movement of people, it seems okay to go to the US and try for the same deal with them?

Oh dear me DJ, let me explain. Nobody doesnt want free trade with the EU. The problem is coming from the EUs insistence that they will not agree a free trade deal without free movement.
This is pure spite. They have agreed a free trade deal wth Canada that does not involve free movement. Its possible to do the same with us, but the EU mandarins do not want to.

We already trade with the US
Not on favourable terms.