Article 50

Well, you must read/have read something, surely, saak. Else how are you so certain that the EU is the cause of everything you perceive to be a problem?

Excellent, balanced article, Welshwife. Well worth reading - nothing 'ranty' about it. Thanks for posting.

No, I just watch things in real life to be honest. I don't go and read all the "articles" produced. Ive lived it. There is no article on this earth that would make me say from wanting to get out of the EU.

Perhaps you may want to "live" it a bit more rather than read an article Maw
Not in the slightest mutually exclusive , SAAK.

A strange idea that those who read articles don't live real lives. It's possible to do both. Better to do both in fact.
From the article.
'In the House of Commons, in the debate on the EU referendum Bill, the then Minister for Europe, David Lidington, told the House that “the legislation is about holding a vote; it makes no provision for what follows. The referendum is advisory” (Hansard, June 16 2015). Yet in the most barefaced manner and contrary both to the briefing and the government statement in the House, the Brexit cabal have treated the referendum outcome as binding and mandating, in defiance of the explicit nature of the Referendum Act itself.

This is just one of many major and serious lies on which the Brexit debacle is based. The Brexiters have made up the rules as they go along, changing them when expedient, saying one thing at one time and another at another, acting with the kind of dishonesty and duplicity that one expects only of thieves.'

Goves the lie to the fact that it wasn't advisory. Strange that Brexiters have conveniently missed that out in all the articles they have written.
It's in Hansard, so it is true.

But of course none of us "live real life*do we?
?"Is it the real world, is it just fantasy?" ?

whats with the music? i love a working class life in the heart of london, where are you lala land?

That is my ear worm now MawBroon

off to my real bed to read some fiction

live.... poxy apple....

Freudian slip there? Gives the lie, not Goves.

Even the idea of taking back our sovereignty was a lie.

'The White Paper itself exposes the egregious lie about sovereignty. It says – and this should make any sane person weep, in light of the “take back control” nonsense of the Leave campaign – “The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that” (section 2.1 Cm 9417).'

It says so in the white paper. What lies Brexiters voted for!

Night night, just posting a selfie before I go

I don't have an Apple, can't afford it, so can't blame that for my mistakes.

Is that what Jalima stands for?

i love a working class life in the heart of london,
I'm quite enjoying being retired, but I loved my work too.

err, i didn't buy it either. It's a work computer. Hate the bloody thing too.

Reassuring to know that vociferous 'out' voters did their research and voted from a position of knowledge and informed objectivity!
Or is it from a position of 'coz I say so' ??

Just as reassuring to know that the out voters mostly came from a place of a "living" it kind of knowledge rather than high tower crap

What do you mean by high tower crap??
More high rise blocks in Central London than out in the sticks.
Or did you mean "ivory tower"?
If so, why not say so?

Does that mean you live/love in a tower block in inner London? Can't work it out as so few 'out' voters live here - only know one.
Finding your posts difficult to decipher so perhaps it's time to put away the ? and head for bed.

Maybe saak should request a meeting with AC Grayling (the writer of the article) on the topic of 'real life'. It could be quite illuminating.

Surely everyone lives their lives? Who doesn't? Even people in tower blocks ? Weird or what?

Some of them even have gold-plated lifts!

I found it interesting the way the article went through all the points logically and chronologically.
Another point is that all the Brexiteers were shouting all the time - anything else being said and they just shouted everyone down -- they are still doing this each week on QT and David Dimbleby is no good whatsoever in keeping them in order - last week was absolutely dreadful - most people acted as if they had never been taught any manners. I thought Billy Bragg showed the most restraint and manners! He has also written a good piece about the situation we now find ourselves in.
This morning I have read an interview with Richard Evans who was the main witness in the holocaust denial trial - when reading it I could not but relate much of what he said to what is happening in UK now.

I have heard Richard Evans speaking a couple of times. He is excellent and can see very clearly the similarities between 1930s Europe, especially Germany, and what's happening today.

Was it this article Welshwife?

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/02/historian_richard_evans_says_trump_s_america_isn_t_exactly_like_the_third.html