Article 50

Daphne is confused between student loans which do demand three year residency and tuition fees which do not!

JessM

"University boards around the country are currently very worried about the drop in applications from non UK students because the drop in income will mean they have to cut services to all students. So fewer non UK students will have a negative impact on UK students."

Its third country nationals who bring extra income Jess, EU nationals offer no benefit. You ar conflating the two.

"EU nationals are only eligible for 'home status' (ie to be treated as 'our own'), be eligible for UK fees and be able to apply for a loan, if they have been settled in the UK for at least three years before the start of the course"

I am afraid youre wrong Daphne

4. ‘EU Nationals in the UK’
In order to qualify for 'home' fees under this category, you must meet all of the following criteria:

(a) you are an non-UK EU national on the first day of the first academic year of the course. If you are a national of a country that joins the EU after the start of your course you will be treated as meeting this requirement in the next academic year; and

(b) you were ordinarily resident in the UK on first day of the first academic year of the course; and

(c) you were ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands for the three-year period before the first day of the first academic year of the course; and

(d) if during any part of the three year period, the main purpose for your residence was to receive full-time education, you must have been ordinarily resident in the EEA and/or Switzerland and/or the overseas territories immediately prior to the three-year period of ordinary residence in the UK and Islands.

They also have to meet language ability criteria. It is cheaper to study in their country of origin.

No they dont, though they do have to meet language criteria to win a university place, and sometimes not very high ones.

Thank you for that clear, calm explanation daphnedill . I know of several students who have elected to study in EU countries like Netherlands and Sweden where there are excellent courses which are much cheaper - or even free - than the equivalent UK courses. And because English is the international language of science, the courses are in English. A senior academic said to my DH that if his kids wanted to study science, he'd advise them to do this.
University boards around the country are currently very worried about the drop in applications from non UK students because the drop in income will mean they have to cut services to all students. So fewer non UK students will have a negative impact on UK students.

I think you should check out the regulations, Mair.

EU nationals are only eligible for 'home status' (ie to be treated as 'our own'), be eligible for UK fees and be able to apply for a loan, if they have been settled in the UK for at least three years before the start of the course. They also have to meet language ability criteria. It is cheaper to study in their country of origin.

The EU is actually advantageous for UK students, because they can apply for courses in EU universities and only have to pay local fees, which are much cheaper than UK universities. Although they have to meet language criteria for some courses, some universities are now running courses in English.

UK universities stand to lose financially from leaving the UK, because many EU and international students are self-funded and pay much higher fees than home students. Some also bring research grants with them from their country of origin. These are in addition to the number of UK students which the British government is willing to fund. Losing them will not mean that there are places available for UK students. There has already been a decrease in the number of EU and international students applying for British universities, so the universities will lose financially.

Yorkshiregel

Some good posts but I must correct you as you seem to be under a misapprehension on a couple of small but important points:

"I didn't say tuition fees had anything to do with the EU, but the money saved from not having to send vast amounts every day to the EU could pay for our own children to be university educated free of charge and so fill the gap when it comes to employing nurses and doctors, at the moment we rely on too many from overseas^

But they are affected by the EU! While we remain in, EU student have to be treated like our own, paying UK student tuition fees and even getting student loans (which huge numbers never pay bacK).
It will save money and save more places at our highly sought after universities for British students!

Secondly, you appear to think that there is a shortage of BRitish students applying for medicine and nursing courses?
This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Places on these courses and all other NHS professional courses (such as physiotherapy) are very very sought after! The shortages are purely because our governments have for decades failed to create enough trainign places! Its cheaper and suits many peoples agenda to bring thm in ready trained from poorer countries!

This is truly disgusting! We should train ALL our own doctors, nurses and other NHS professionals!

The hypocricy of left wingers who claim its OK to do this is astonishing and highlights how brainwashed and confused so many of them are!

This was Stoke eight or nine years ago; I am just wondering whether it has changed much with all the regeneration and renewed hope. However, it sounds as if Tristram Hunt was completely out of touch with his constituents and Labour really need to field a candidate who is in tune with what they are thinking. I don't think they have.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/may/28/labour.thefarright

Morgana
And in answer to previous post yes I grew up in Stoke and still have family there. They have been badly let down by successive governments.

I know how depressing it has been in Stoke for many years but had thought that there had been a lot of ongoing improvements in the past couple of years, regeneration, new industries - and some hope at last.

When I called him an arch leaver, I meant leaving the country as opposed to Brexiteer who would want the UK to leave the EU.

He wants us to stay in the EU because of Virgin airways. The UK could lose out on EU and Transatlantic flights.

Anyone else seen this?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/tory-rebellion-article-50-bill-mps-demand-white-paper-vote-start/

I'm shocked - I thought everyone knew Branson was bankrolling an anti-Brexit campaign!

why he

Yes, RB has put £25,000 in to a fund to try to prevent Brexit so I am not sure why is would be described as an arch leaver

DJ I am puzzled as to why you describe Branson (I presume you mean Richard Branson) as an arch leaver when he appears to be supporting a campaign to stop brexit.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/21/sir-richard-branson-funding-new-campaign-group-fighting-brexit

Each to his own choice. My choice is to remain in UK and support my country.

Branson by the way does not live in UK, he lives on a private island in the Carrabean so his views should not count anyway imo....nor should the views of people who abandoned this country to live elsewhere. I can understand that they want to keep their pension that they earned, ok with that, but why should they be able to dictate what happens here in UK when they live abroad?

I do not understand the worries of people who think that we will be poorer when we leave the EU. We are sending £millions to them every day in contributions, but add to that the fines and the demands for extras that the EU keeps sending and add it to the amount we give in overseas aid then it all adds up to a lot of money that could be spent on farmers AND students' education. Yes, the EU is overseas so we are sending double amounts of overseas aid aren't we.

When people say that the EU pays for this and that it is not strictly correct. We send money to the EU, they then send a % back (telling us what we must spend it on) so it is our own money we are using. I object to hard working people in this country having to work all hours so that we can send money to the EU which is spent on countries such as India, which can afford to send rockets in to space, or China which is doing very well anyway without our money. A LOT of overseas aid is just wasted or creamed off by corrupt governments.

I believe our own youngsters, pensioners, working people should come first in line when it comes to aid. What we have left we could then send to places where we know it will be spent wisely. I do not object to supporting building schools or giving mosquito nets or animals or trees to help people out, but we should NEVER send money imo which could be squandered away.

But I digress, sorry. Once Article50 is triggered people will have to make up their own mind where they want to be and what they want to spend where.

newnanny, whilst I agree that people in areas of high numbers of immigrants could be expected to vote to leave, but it doesn't explain why the area where I live voted to leave, so rural we have more sheep than people and more mountains than towns , we don't even have a city

I might end up doing that, Yorkshiregel, if my family go to Denmark and Spain and I end up being the only one left here.
Why would any remainer believe anything the arch leaver Branson said? All he does is take money out of our NHS to the BVI without paying tax on it.
When the UK leaves the EU, there will be no money left for student grants. All the money we will not pay to the EU has been spent ten times over by the Brexiteers without even thinking about student grants. I can't see farmers giving up all that money so students can get grants.

Whitewave two for Business and one for Psychology. Whether farmers want brightest or not is not an issue because all fruit pickers likely to be paid minimum wage. However it is entry level jobs and not just fruit picking that are in short measure for UK citizens because of the rush of rapid and unrestricted immigration from EU. There are lots of UK citizens who would love jobs even paid on minimum wage in areas of country with higher unemployment. There are also issues with public services such as GP surgeries and schools not keeping pace with the rush of rapid immigration. Unfortunately immigrants do not come with a funding package that can be used to build more resources that they will need to live here. Immigration is not problem in itself. it is the volume of immigration over last 15 years that has caused hardship to many, Eg my father in law had to wait 10 days to get Dr appointment as he lives in area of high immigration. Many immigrants seem to have above average children so Dr appointments difficult to book, school places shortage often follows. It is not a coincidence that the areas of the country that experience shortages of services due to rapid immigration were areas to vote Brexit. Areas that voted remain not experiencing shortage/hardship to same extent.

Anya I did read just one of your post and misinterpreted, sorry have now read more and largely agree with you.

Yes, I am from Yorkshire, and not far from you durhamjen however because of my father's work (Armed Forces) we left when I was 12yrs old. I started to live on the Shropshire/Staffordshire border when I married. My heart is in Yorkshire, I still have relatives living in Yorkshire but I do not live there anymore although I visit often. Beautiful county and I am proud to have been born there.

I didn't say tuition fees had anything to do with the EU, but the money saved from not having to send vast amounts every day to the EU could pay for our own children to be university educated free of charge and so fill the gap when it comes to employing nurses and doctors, at the moment we rely on too many from overseas. I think people should stay in their own country and make their country a better place to live in.

Writing to your MP will not make one ha'porth of difference when it comes to the vote to trigger Article50 because the decision has already been made......ie we voted out in a legal Referendum and out it will be.

As for doom and gloom, didn't you even do your homework before the Referendum? Didn't you see all the doom and gloom forecasts we got from people such as Richard Branson, the Banks, in short those who haven't read the history of the EU and didn't realise what their ultimate aims were?

It is people like these remoaners who are causing the uncertainty. They should start believing in their country and what it is capable of, pull together, and stop moaning about things that will never happen. We are LEAVING! Nothing will stop that.

Still, if you don't like it there is plenty of time, ie two years, for you to pack up and go and live in the EU.

Are you really from Yorkshire, Yorkshiregel?
I am from Hull, where immigrants were accepted over centuries.
Many came in to travel on to the USA and stayed in Yorkshire, not having realised what a lovely county it was. They thought Hull and Liverpool were quite close.

Well if your grandson hasn't taken the nationality of his adoptive country Yorkshiregel he'd better watch out or he might be on his way home soon.
The pound has not dropped ???? What planet are you living on? It dropped to it's lowest for over 30 years and is slowly creeping up again. I was actually quite glad I didn't cash my euros in between holidays because they were worth more eventually. I got 1.50 to the pound it's now about 1.20
Where on earth do you get your ideas about people entering this country without checks-it's rubbish. And how do you imagine coming out of the EU will solve the immigration problem, without the French housing and holding immigrants in camps they might well be over here. We simply don't have the resources to monitor every port and beach in the UK. So if you are worried about immigration now be prepared for more when we exit, unless the French agree to keep our borders for us.

As far as Article 50 goes I am writing to my MP asking her to defy the three line whip and vote against the bill so complying with the wishes of most of her constituents. So I think Corbyn was wrong and should have allowed a free vote.

1. My Grandson married and moved to Europe to be with his wife. It was nothing to do with the EU.

2. Are you denying that the Remoaners were not predicting that there would be a recession if we said we wanted to come out of the EU. We voted to come out and the pound has not dropped because of it. The indecision is what is causing the wobble. If the Remoaners stopped moaning we would see the pound shoot up. As it is we are not doing so badly are we, all the banks and industry bosses are confident that we can go it alone.

3. If you cannot work out that people from Sudan and other non-EU countries can cross open borders then there is no hope of convincing you otherwise so I will not even try. It is possible at the moment to get on a train ie Eurostar, and come right in to London without checks. That is only one example. Another is that if you fly from say Paris in a private jet you can also get in to London without checks being made. Work it out.

People who want to come here for a new life with benefits are the people who can come through these borders unchecked or in the back of a lorry parked on our motorway service stations. You see them in all our big cities.

I'd also like to know how leaving the EU is going to have any effect on tuition fees, except put them up. EU grants are subsidising UK universities. Since when did the UK send foreign aid to EU countries?

Have been on a day return to Yorkshire from Essex today, so too tired to reply to your post, Yorkshiregel, but you seem somewhat confused.

Yorkshiregel I hate to break it to you but we have not begun to see the "doom and gloom" yet because we are still inside the EU
Unless perhaps you have tried a foreign holiday and found your money doesn't go nearly so far as it did.

What have tuition fees to do with the EU, Yorkshiregel?

'A lot of doom and gloom has not materialised' we are actually still in the European union. The pound has already plummeted food is more expensive. I feel very sorry for those many people who voted to leave who are very likely to be even worse off in the short term. Yes long term it might well work out to our advantage. Let's keep our fingers crossed. And in answer to previous post yes I grew up in Stoke and still have family there. They have been badly let down by successive governments.