The Trump presidency

Why use meeting/embarrassing the Queen on the petition when in actual fact most people don't give a toss about HM or her family? Surely more honest to say that the citizens of this country dislike you intensely and aren't prepared to welcome you here?!!

Your opinion of T May's actions is not shared by everyone, whitewave, you'll not be surprised to hear.

Why on earth should she back-pedal? Now that really would make her look weak.

ww you say that 'May has really cocked this one up' but forgot to say IMHO.
I wonder how you would have played it if you were PM? Refused to go and meet him?
Go, but remain stony faced and un-cooperative? Lay down the law about his thoughts/words/actions? Easy to be an armchair critic.As PM you have to act in the best interests of your country and put personal feelings aside.

I agree that TM played this one about right. She had little choice I am afraid. She is probably seething inside.

I agree the petition is stupidly worded - I have no concern for the queen - she has dealt with people like him before. She probably finds the petition irritating.

I would not even sign one that said he should not come here - we have to play the game a bit - I think he is a thoroughly obnoxious and dangerous human being, but if we have this visit it means that we will have better access to his advisors and a miniscule bit of leverage.

Surely you have to decide that some things are more valuable than a trade agreement Grannyben?

Some people seem to have a very strange view of our democracy. Whether, at this point in time, you "give a toss about HM or here family" is really not to the point. She is, currently, whether anyone likes it or not, the head of state.

By saying "Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom." those signing it are not even mentioning the Queen or any member of her family, they are talking about the state.

Good post Luckygirl

I do not believe May is a bad person even though I may not agree with her politics but I do hope the morality most would believe she has will kick in fairly soon. Currently I am ashamed of her behaviour on my behalf but allow she was in a difficult position. However, she needs to make her position clear now and not make a release from Downing Street.

I briefly knew TM in the 80s as a fellow school governor. She was a local Conservative councillor and I was a parent governor. She was good at putting aside party politics then to focus on the needs of the school. I did not, and still do not, support her political views. Like you GracesGran I do hope that she can put policy aside and take a moral stance and make sure the needs of ALL British citizens are a priority in her communications/ dealings with Trump.

Gracesgran, British democracy.

"Meanwhile, the British Government now has the worst claim to a democratic mandate of any parliamentary majority government in the OECD. No developed democracy has a less representative majority government, or one elected by a smaller share of voters.
Proportional Representation, on the other hand, allows collaboration and consensus rather than oppositional politics. PR is the best defence against domination by minority groups - whether you happen to agree with them or not."

That 'handhold'. It was shown again on the BBC evening news yesterday. Fortunately/ unfortunately ( for some) the BBC footage shows the two of them coming out of the door and it's obvious that there is a short steep slope and TM starts to falter: he then takes her hand.

By mentioning 'causing embarrassment to the Queen' on the petition, you are in effect using that as a reason to cancel a state visit. Surely as most people don't care about the Queen, wishing to save her embarrassment is a bit laughable, obviously not true and frankly dishonest.
As this country is clearly so dreadful, I can't understand why you still live here dj? There must be a somewhere, particularly with your international family connections, that you would feel more politically at ease?! Seems odd to have stayed in a country with a political system you dislike so much. It is astonishing too that, bearing in mind this dreadful country, that so many people are desperate to live here, presumably warts and all!

Yes, as any man would to help a lady over an unknown surface. For God's sake they were not holding hands! Last week I had a helping hand from a man I detest at a funeral!

He took her hand, what would anyone expect her to do, hit him? She had no choice , well she did have a choice, possibly stumble and hit the ground, brush his hand away or grit her teeth and carry on

Steve Bannon must be thrilled at the way things are developing.

annie if she doesn't have the social graces and wit to avoid holding hands ???!!! Don't believe it. May was taken for a Patsy.

Maizie D

"I think, Chewbacca, that it seems to be the will of the people that our Queen doesn't have to meet Trump. Is that a better reason for not inviting him to?"

Ah, that makes my case about the hypocrisy of the EU Referendum . 'The will of the People voted to Leave' did it not. Talk about pick and choose when to use 'The Will of the people'.
-
Durhamjen

'Does anyone else think it weird that Homeland is on TV now, and the Homeland Security Secretary gets mentioned on the news?
Haven't watched Homeland yet, but assume there are similarities.'

No, it was scheduled by the BBC a while ago.
--
You have mentioned more than once
'By the way, Trump signed the order on Holocaust Memorial Day. No sense of irony, then.'

Are you implying he signed it back Israel?
--
'Sadiq Khan doesn't want him in London, and he will boycott anything involving Trump if he does come.'

That is just ridiculous. He should remember he is not simply a Labour Politician but has the status of Lord Mayor of London and remember what his role is.
-

I simply cannot get in a rage over a State Visit to be honest.

This point was made on the Theresa May thread

"What is so concerning is that some have argued that we can no longer afford to hold to our values, or our moral values because we need a trade deal."

Fair enough but if I saw those voices shouting so loudly to 'hold our values, our moral values' , going on demonstrations, signing e.petitions getting as worked up and angry over Female Genital Mutilation, Under age marriage, forced marriage, peadophillia, breast ironing, women being seen as no more than the chattel of their brothers, fathers and husbands, the laws of those religions that are so diametrically opposed to our UK laws with regard to women's rights, opposing Hate Preachers spewing out their vile thoughts then maybe I could get excited"..

They don't though do they.

And please don't call me a lover of Trump, I have repeated I do not like Trump nor Clinton several times. I will admit to standing up to posts that I deem as puerile, inane in content, fake news and downright nasty toward his wife and son whom are easy picking for the 'hate trade'.

Eagerly awaiting now the response from the usual suspects.

WW

'annie if she doesn't have the social graces and wit to avoid holding hands ???!!!

Your social graces are certainly different to mine. Trump did exactly what my husband would probably have done given the situation.

As I mentioned before there is 'another ' hypocrisy over the 'hand holding' incident.

Those voices so upset by his conduct in ensuring Theresa May walked down the slope safely are the same voices saying he was ungentlemanly in his conduct with his wife on the steps of the White House.

As for the picture in the link provided by durhamjen showing Trump with his hand on Theresa May's backside any fool can see it is a safe distance away not touching. It is a photo designed to grab the attention of those of a certain persuasion and knowingly distributed to cause mischief.

It worked.

Then again I found the cartoon by the Guardian Cartoonist Steve Bell was too my mind a nasty piece of work. Each to his own it I suppose.

pogs you may not have noticed but I have not joined in with the discussion regarding Trump and his wife. I have no interest in either her or their relationship.

May has not achieved anything by rushing over to America, other than what Trump wanted. She has been taken for a patsy. I can't begin to imagine that a more sophisticated and worldly wise national leader would have done the same.

With regard to the Steve Bell cartoon. I am aware that you have been extremely excercised by it, but you must accept that satire is frequently controversial and often considered outrageous. Bell was using one first seen in the 18th century so is not new. Charlie Hebdo is another that many find unpleasant, but if we look back in history it is a tool that has been used certainly since the enlightenment.

You keep on saying that ww and I have to wonder why.A patsy? Not at all, but a visit by the PM to the newly voted in POTUS.She would have been the same with Clinton, wanting to renew bonds and hope for good trade deals and outcomes.Simple as that.

Asra Normani, a liberal activist ( in the USA) has given her support to Trumps * 30 day ban * She is co- founder of the Muslim Reform movement.

In the past she has called for mass and secret surveillance of Muslim Americans and mosques.
She has also called for religious and racial profiling of Muslim Americans or those that look Muslim, especially at airports.
She doesn't sound very liberal, does she.

A measured wait and see and understand how his presidency was going to develop would have been far cleverer. Why the rush? We can't complete any trade deals until Brexit. We can start some dealing which doesn't need us to rush over with unseemly haste. She must already be regretting her chosen course of action. Let's hope Turkeys visit doesn't turn out the same.

Jen that is a bit startling isn't it (Mon 30-Jan-17 12:17:34)

whitewave, I think dhe showed social graces by not pushing his hand away , if someone extends a hand to assist to push it away is ill mannered and certainly show a lack of acceptable social behaviour , I certainly think she met him fsr too early, I dislike this special relationship nonsense , I was sickened when she referred to his stunning win but snatching her hand away would have been ill mannered