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News & politics

Freedom of speech

(568 Posts)
Christinefrance Mon 06-Feb-17 19:32:14

I've just heard that the Speaker Mr Bercow wants to ban Donald Trump from speaking in the House. Whilst not in agreement with most of the Donald 's ideas I do believe in the freedom of speech. What do others think ?

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 18:35:46

for groupong read grouping - but there again...! grin

rosesarered Tue 14-Feb-17 18:39:34

It may be a good film but it's still a film, and the surprising thing is that Flynn is citing it as Gospel.Couldn't he have asked more fact based questions, there must be info out there that he could easily have brought up.However, it's hardly worth us arguing about.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 18:42:17

We're still talking about poverty, homelessness and prison overcrowding more than 150 years after Dickens wrote about them. Quite depressing really.

POGS, that's not all Flynn asked him about.
He asked about the fact that Devereux got a £20,000 bonus, more than a family on benefits. That's rather relevant as well.
Robert Devereux mentioned a little local knowledge. I doubt he's been anywhere near a jobcentre in the North East. I didn't understand who was to be allowed a little local knowledge, himself or Loach.

I agree with Rigby; he probably has seen the film but daren't say so.
I didn't understand

Anniebach Tue 14-Feb-17 19:16:08

Jen, you only brought attention to Flynn asking sbout the about the film, you must have thought this the most important question

Ankers Tue 14-Feb-17 19:17:35

What he has done, by ignoring the aspect he was asked to comment on, was to represent a government that feels it is above the people who use the service

I think this is like the "anniebach phenomonen" if she doesnt mind me saying that.

That of, real life[in her case things that happen when she canvasses] doesnt seem to matter or be taken account of, when there is a piece of fiction, which is going to trump real life.

But a piece of fiction[personally from the sounds of it, Ken Loach would have been better off either doing a factual film or fiction and not try to marry the two, nas who then has any idea as to which bit or part is which[disclaimer I have not watched the film]] is basically totally fact!

I am beginning to think and wonder,and come to the conclusion, that if something, be what it may [fact, fiction, even fake news], suits some peoples' agendas then that is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!

MawBroon Tue 14-Feb-17 19:38:16

You could say the same about Dickens, Stowe and Kingsley among others then, Ankers a widely disseminated film like a bestselling book brings an acutely observed situation to a much wider public. And no, I don't think too many people would have watched such a film with equanimity as "just" fiction".
Yes there are and have been some very hard hitting and influential documentaries, which is what you seem to be counselling film makers to stick to, but the authors I quote and there MUST be others , knew what they were about.
And please do not bring "fake news" into,the equation, it is irrelevant in this instance.

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 19:55:32

I've seen the film and I've also been recently unemployed and in receipt of JSA for almost two years.

Admittedly the characters in the film are fictional, but the situations aren't. Making a documentary about a real life Daniel would almost certainly be quite boring, which is how a fictional account produces a stringer message.

I felt extremely uncomfortable when watching the film, because it brought back the whole nightmare. Anybody who dismisses the film as just fiction really does need to spend a few weeks or months on the other side of the desk from the Jobcentre officials. Hopefully, it has opened a few eyes, but evidently not all.

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 19:56:53

Typo alert! stronger not stringer. Ooops!

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:04:36

Ankers, that last post of yours was absolutely incomprehensible. And I don't know why I even bothered pointing that out...

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:06:55

daphnedill, I thought you gave private tuition and had a sideline in selling on ebay.

Ankers Tue 14-Feb-17 20:09:58

I was tired. I know. Sorry. Not sure I want to try again. But if you really want me to, I will. Or a part of it.

Eloethan Tue 14-Feb-17 20:13:55

Films such as Daniel Blake may not change government policy but they may make some people re-assess their views on certain matters. In seeing the plight of individual people being depicted, rather than reading about something that is happening to thousands of "faceless" families, people have the opportunity to get some idea of what it feels like to be poor and powerless - and, perhaps more importantly - the powerless are given a voice.

Films/plays like Boys from the Blackstuff, The Naked Civil Servant, Spotlight, To Kill a Mockingbird, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, etc., etc., have given people an opportunity to view certain issues from a different perspective or shine a light on issues that some people would prefer to be left unexplored.

As others have said, there are many works of fiction and dramas that have influenced opinion and, ultimately, policy. Professor Erica Ball wrote about the 1977 mini-series Roots on the We're History website:

"Ultimately, Roots was a cultural production that recast the way that Hollywood represented, and Americans understood, slavery. In the process, this seventies television series invited Americans in that era to reconsider the history of the nation, and the place of black Americans within it."

Although there was subsequently much controversy as to whether the characters were real of fictional, many believe that this did not detract from the intrinsic truth of a slave's experience or the importance of the series in terms of the impact it made on both black and white people.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 20:26:00

I've been on both sides of the desk, daphne. When I was signing on to collect benefit, I couldn't believe how angry I was at having to prove what I said was true. That was thirty years ago.

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:30:34

I was on JSA about 20 years ago. I had a very helpful, older adviser at the Jobcentre and was never made to feel demeaned in any way - I certainly didn't feel angry. Why should I? People lose their jobs for all sorts of reasons.

JessM Tue 14-Feb-17 20:31:50

Powerful post daphnedil

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:39:41

Ana Are you keeping an updated CV for me or something? Yes, I do give private tuition and sell stuff on eBay - and I write teaching materials, if you'd care to add that to the list. However, I did write recently, although I didn't specify how long ago. As you're so interested in my private life, I don't mind telling you it was from 2010 until 2012, so I witnessed for myself some of the early changes to the system. The whole thing was a nightmare and I'm only here today, because I had a fantastic doctor and mental health team (alas, now disbanded). If there's anything else you'd like to know about me, it might be best to PM me, because I don't suppose anybody else is interested. There was nothing unrealistic in the film.

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:42:58

As I've said, I've also been on JSA. Life happens and you just get on with it, as I'm sure you'd agree.

No thanks, I have no interest in knowing anything more about you daphnedill, I think I know enough.

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:43:34

Very well said, Eloethan.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 20:45:30

I was refused benefit because I had moved to a different area with my husband and family, giving up a job. They told me I was due any benefit because I had resigned.
I had to appeal, which only took three weeks back then, and it was backdated.
Now it takes a lot longer. That's why it's demeaning.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 20:46:11

Sorry, I was NOT due any benefit....

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:47:22

Ana 20 years ago!? hmm So was I, very briefly. The whole system has changed since then.

PS. If you're not interested in my life, stop keeping files or whatever you do! I'm beginning to feel I have a stalker - and, no, I haven't lied, if that's what you're trying to prove.

rosesarered Tue 14-Feb-17 20:47:23

dd you have said on various threads that you gave tuition, and also sold ( something that I don't remember) on ebay.Not that I have a marvellous memory but you are one of few posters who openly stated what you do for a living.Nobody is keeping lists about you, but it's unusual on Gransnet for people to say what they do ( most of us are retired anyway.)

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:50:43

Dj That really is only a small part of it. It's always been the case that you have to wait if you've resigned, unless you can prove a good reason. This isn't the place to go into everything. Maybe I should contact Ken Loach and he can produce a sequel.

daphnedill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:51:26

Whatever, roses.

Ana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:53:30

Actually the comment about my JSA claim was to durhamjen, who said she had such a hard time some 30 years ago.

Didn't you read that post, daphnedill?