Gransnet forums

News & politics

Labour and Corbyn

(31 Posts)
Fitzy54 Sun 12-Feb-17 09:42:25

Times headline today: "Labour is conducting secret succession planning for Jeremy Corbyn's departure according to leaked documents that warn the party is facing meltdown under his leadership". Labour suffered a terrible result at the last election, but their own research suggests they are on the brink of true collapse with the Conservatives predicted to win 361 seats to Labour's 198. The report says Corbyn is by far Britain's most unpopular leader. What does the party need to do reverse it's fortunes?

MawBroon Sun 12-Feb-17 09:53:25

It is a dilemma if or when the Parliamentary Labour Party is at odds with the party in the country.
All I would say is that if the leadership selection process is wrong or likely to damage the party and its prospects, somebody needs to start a review of the system with a view to changing it.
In readiness for an election should it be called early - not in 4 years time.

Anniebach Sun 12-Feb-17 11:10:48

Learn from the past but stop living in the past.

Stop going on and on about the homeless, disabled, those in poverty and at the same time support a leader who will never win an election which is the only way to help the homeless, disabled, those in poverty .

Move back to the centre to win votes in middle England .

Accept it is possible to move to the centre and still care for the vunerable

Socialism does not mean communism

Teetime Sun 12-Feb-17 12:10:38

Well said anniebach. Is Corbyn going - we can only hope!!

Anniebach Sun 12-Feb-17 12:27:58

Teetime, the problem now is if Corbyn stood down it would only be if he was sure of a far left replacement. John MacDonald is lining one up, no experience but he can rule from the shadows.

The communist party has a grip of momentum and the only hope is to return to the former way of electing a leader .

My fears of years in the wilderness for labour are proving to be correct and this is not something which gives me pleasure, who would be pleased if their fears became reality

Fitzy54 Sun 12-Feb-17 15:24:03

The party is looking at the way in which it chooses its leader. i understand the moderates are hopeful that they can revert to something which gives the PLP a lot of power, so they can block any hard left candidates.

POGS Sun 12-Feb-17 15:46:32

'The communist party has a grip of momentum and the only hope is to return to the former way of electing a leader .'

I was told/asked to apologise on GN for mentioning Corbyn and his supporters and Communism in the same breath when Corbyn burst onto the scene.

How times have changed.

'Corbynistas' held him up to be a principled politician who would not flinch from remaining true to 'their' core principles . Corbyn by taking the role of Labour Leader became part of the establishment and to be a Leader he has to/had to make decisions that could not possibly please everybody.

As for whether or not there is another attempt to oust him as Labour Leader rumours will be rumours and only time will tell us the truth.

If he was happy to see decent MP's having the threat of deselection over their heads due to his electing to sit with Momentum (purely evolved for Corbyn, not Labour Party), then I don't think there will be many tears shed if Karma comes to call.

M0nica Sun 12-Feb-17 16:14:52

With Labour MPs already looking for jobs out of parliament before the rush of unseated MPs following the 2020 election there soon won't be a Labour party for anyone to need to worry about.

rosesarered Sun 12-Feb-17 16:21:36

Well said ( to all poster so far!)
Nothing much to add to that really, but can't see him stepping down anytime soon, think he will be defeated at the next GE, replaced and then a long long wait to get into power again.

petra Sun 12-Feb-17 16:24:44

Corbyn has been told to stay away from Stoke as he's ' not a plus on the doorstep' If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

petra Sun 12-Feb-17 16:26:55

It would be interesting to hear from some of his supporters Re Stoke.

Ana Sun 12-Feb-17 16:29:42

It seems obvious that Corbyn supporters are trying very hard to ignore this thread. And succeeding!

Anniebach Sun 12-Feb-17 16:38:43

Labour may win Stoke but if so it will not mean support for Corbyn , I have been told his name is not on the fliers

TriciaF Sun 12-Feb-17 17:23:49

I don't mind repeating that I re-joined the LP to vote for Corbyn as leader. I still admire most of his principles, but have added that his main task was to unite the LP. Which he never managed to do, in fact I think the differences between the factions are greater now.
Not altogether his fault, other much bigger issues worked against this. But it has shown that he lacks tactical political instinct.

TriciaF Sun 12-Feb-17 17:32:47

ps and I think that his 3line whip over the Brexit debate was a big tactical error. Very disappointed about that.

Welshwife Sun 12-Feb-17 17:43:21

I thought there was supposed to be an opposition to the Govt and I have not seen any sign of one for quite a while.

I also thought that MPs were supposed to be honourable and vote for what they truly believed to be in the best interests of the country - most of them seem to be failing spectacularly on that front at the moment!

Anniebach Sun 12-Feb-17 17:58:16

Welshwife, who is there to speak out? We only hear Thorberry, MacDonald and Abbot . Hilary Benn spoke out and was sacked. Corbyn is concerned not with being s forceful oposition but forming a Labour Party in his own image

Welshwife Sun 12-Feb-17 18:14:22

Exactly - just no real choice for the electorate. But few of the MPs, except for the Lib Dems, are really voting in an honourable way - all too scared of losing their seats. Maybe people would have more respect for them and continue to vote for them if they had the courage of their convictions!

Anniebach Sun 12-Feb-17 18:46:45

Welshwife,,if you mesn the Brexit vote, ehich do you consider honourable or not

MP's who voted according to their own convictions or MP's who voted with their constituency who voted them as their MP to represent them?

Fitzy54 Sun 12-Feb-17 19:08:56

I agree that the PLP arguments over the Brexit vote has had an effect, but surely it's clear that it has lost a great deal of support as a result of its lurch to the left, and that support isn't going to return while that remains the position?

Anniebach Sat 18-Feb-17 08:46:51

Simon Fletcher, Corbyns top aid has resigned, and less than a week before two by elections. He claims the party lacks direction .

Polite way of saying the party has a bloody useless leader

daphnedill Sat 18-Feb-17 09:43:06

I honestly don't know what goes on amongst Corbyn's staff, but it appears that there was tension between Karie Murphy and Fletcher. Seumas Milne became a permanent member of staff in the New Year. Anneliese Midgley (Fletcher's deputy) had already resigned.

Meanwhile, it appears that Momentum is losing many of its new and young members. My DS, who's studying politics at uni, decided to go to a Momentum meeting to see what it was all about. His verdict was that it was full of bossy old men (his words), who shouted down the younger people. DD has a number of friends who were initially excited about Momentum, but seem to be disillusioned.

From an outsider's point of view, it seems that the Labour Party is tearing itself apart. I think there are some good people waiting in the wings and I hope the time will be right sooner rather than later for them to make a move.

Fitzy I don't think there's much wrong with a lurch to the left, although I think the traditional ideas of left vs right aren't relevant these days. Some of the press releases have been, quite honestly, ridiculous. As far as I can tell, Labour doesn't have coherent strategies. They're too wishy washy about things which aren't really important.

Anniebach Sat 18-Feb-17 10:06:13

A lurch to the left will not win votes in middle England

The Labour Party us not tearing itself apart, the useless leader is , this is what he wants to do, he has been trying since the eighties

POGS Sat 18-Feb-17 11:38:50


I have said before Corbyn has been used by John McDonnell and John McDonnell will attempt to become Labour Leader by the end of the year.

Given Simon Fletcher was Corbyn's 'Campaign Director' I find the timing of his resignation very interesting given the 2 upcoming
by-election in Copeland and Stok-On-Trent Central.

The other interesting comment repeatedly made is mentioning 'Corbyn's Inner Circle' . It sounds to me Fletcher was not prepared to work with likes of Seamus Milne, Momentum any longer. After all Corbyn's 'Inner Circle' are not the Parliamentary Labour Party it is his 'very own' , specially designed party, Momentum for the most part.

Corbyn used to be seen surrounded by women, now he is seen being followed/escorted by Seamus Milne and James Schneider (Momentum) wearing black coats with their collars up.

If this is true it is very interesting 'timing'.

Seamus Milne has 'just' left the Guardian Newspaper .

" Milne, who was previously associate editor, and a columnist at the paper, was initially granted unpaid leave to work for Labour, after Corbyn swept to the Labour leadership in 2015.

But he is to become a permanent feature of the leader’s team, which has recently been beefed up with a series of new faces, including the former Momentum spokesman James Schneider. "

I wonder how much coverage the BBC will give to these political manoeuvres?

Anniebach Sat 18-Feb-17 11:47:16

Good post POGS,

Corbyn is no leader, he is a puppet for Momentum and the far left . Where is Corbyn? two by elections , the Brexit discussions but no Corbyn .