Open Britain - Hard Brexit

They were blaming the British government because May and Davis said that the EU nationals would be used as bargaining chips. How much more clearly do you want as an indication of such an immoral stance? They have been forced to row back on that since.

Davis said this week concerning the money owned to the EU that he hadn't seen any reason as to why we should pay it, nor principles underlying it. What a huge fibber he is!!!!!! Who on earth does he think believes him?? What does he think of those who do??

I have never heard T May or Davis say that they wanted to use EU nationals as bargaining chips, indeed before Christmas T May tried to come to an agreement so as not to treat them as such, but the rules had to be adhered to according to the EU and not talked about until today.So, there was nothing immoral about it.
You may as well say that the EU wanted to treat them as bargaining chips as well.
Reciprocity was needed of course, to protect our own people abroad ( or do they not matter to some.)

Well today's the day! So many diverse opinions. I usually like to read a cross section of the press open mind and all that. Guardian Telegraph yes the Mail and one other I choose at random. My point? Aside from the sensational headlines of most of the press there is in today's Telegraph Allison Pearson's open letter to Brussels. It's well worth a read.

Then you haven't been listening rose

None so deaf .......

Yes, I have been ww
and going out for the day now.

Yesterday a deputation of EU citizens - mixed nationalities - went to see Barnier and he told them that the position of the EU nationals in UK and UK nationals in the EU would need to be decided before any other talks started. When the same people went to see the HoC committee they were told that it could not be decided till the END of the process. Barnier has seemed to be reasonable about the process - the same as Verhafstadt - they are also more amiable to meeting citizens and discussing things with them.

As to Roses reiterating that she does not think that EU nationals will be told to leave the UK - a number of them who are married to Brits and have a family and jobs and been in the Uk for many years HAVE had letters telling them to make arrangements to leave the UK as soon as the Brexit legislation takes force - presumably March 2019. What is being said verbally and the letters from the Home Office do not tally.

Those letters need to be put on social media. Just like Trump, the lies need to be challenged. They will soon learn that they can't get away with it.

I think that a couple were put up on a closed Facebook site - I read them - but you cannot copy them as it is a closed group and it would not be right to do so. However a couple have also been reported I. The press - one of a Dutch lady in UK for 20+ years and another from a EU doctor who for some legitimate reason sent a certified copy of his passport instead of the actual copy. Due to this his application was rejected despite working in the NHS for years. He then was able to send the actual copy and he had back his residency card - He has however decided to get another job and leave the UK.
I have also seen letter from MPs and MEPs sent in response to letters from worried people and some are off hand to say the least from MPs -no doubt they will find their votes falling at the next election.

Welshwife.... no hard facts there then!
An uncorroborated story of a Dutch lady ( with no idea of her back story) and another of a doctor who sent the wrong legal document, then sent the right one, which was accepted and then he decided to leave the UK anyway.

I agree with you all about the unacceptable position of eu nationals in the uk and put the blame firmly on the borderline inhumane attitude of those in the eu who have told TM and all those affected that they will just have to wait until the eu civil servants are ready to discuss the point, which I understand they might get around to by the end of the year. Posters here seem to think that is an entirely reasonable position to take, which I don't understand at all. Having said that I agree TM ought to bite the bullet and make a unilateral announcement, albeit that that would leave our own citizens out on a limb. Not something I feel at all comfortable with but I think we ought to do the right thing and take the moral high ground, rather than slosh around in the swamp with Barnier and co.

I assume then that you do not read any National papers Roses - the story about the Dutch lady made the UK National press - several papers and the stories were the same - photos, names ages, places etc. I think the Doctor's story was in in the press too.

You are right to assume that (I don't read newspapers) and all newspapers have their own political agendas/slants and what they don't print can often be more important than what they do print.I assume there is an interesting back story about the Dutch lady, for instance, has she spent any years living in Holland or another country and not worked here/resided here fulltime, or some other factor.
The story about the doctor was a non story though.We can't know all the ins and outs of why somebody is turned down, but no doubt there will be good reasons.

We've been over this before, Fitzy

The 'moral high ground' cuts no ice with Leavers.

I thought you said you were going out for the day roses? I'd rather hoped thought that we wouldn't be hearing from you for a few hours

UK votes to leave EU
One consequence of this is position of EU national here and UK nationals in EU
It's the EUs fault for not wanting to sort this out

Repeat after me UK votes to leave EU
Who decided to change things?

Charming Rigby ( as you often are)
But since you are so interested, my DD and I have just had lunch, and she is now getting herself ready for us both to go and do some clothes shopping.There is a dress she has her eye on and she needs new shoes for a wedding.

The EU has followed the law to the letter. The UK needs to get over trying to enforce "old boys' agreements" or funny handshakes.

If people haven't read the EU's first response to May's triggering Article 50, it includes:

"the cut-off date after which EU nationals coming to the UK lose the automatic right to residency in the UK must not be before 29 March 2019, when the country leaves the EU, or the British government will be breaking EU law."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-response-to-article-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal?CMP=share_btn_tw

It also includes:

"should Britain seek to negotiate any free trade deals with other countries while it is still an EU member state, there will be no future discussion of a deal with the union."

So I wonder what Dr Fox will be doing for the next two years. There might be some jobs picking cabbages or potatoes!

You shouldn't provide false hope roses it really is unkind

Mazie others may have been over this before but I have not,so just having my belated say. There are remainers who agree we should give a guarantee without reciprocation, and many others who are waiting only for the eu civil servants to step up. But the eu prefer to let their own citizens suffer in order to embarrass the uk govt. Nice people!

Fitzy it is not up to the EU civil service to guarantee our rights as migrants in other EU countries. It depends on our host nations.

Charming Rigby ( as you often are)
Dignified perhaps is a better word rosesarered

Well Mamie, they are meant to be negotiating via the Commission. In any event whoever it is up to they ought to do something. They clearly have no interest other than to let all those affected stew in order to play politics.

Two of the major issues facing UK pensioners in Europe are pension increases post Brexit and the guarantee of money for health cover through the S1 form. Both of these could be guaranteed by Theresa May and would be reassuring for our host countries. It hardly applies the other way because the number of Europeans retiring to the EU is tiny.
The issues around pensions for working people are more complex and will require the agreement of many of the 27 countries.

That should read Europeans retiring to the UK...
I do not blame the EU for the ongoing difficulties of our situation.