V.A.T, in school fees

trisher, poor working families are already entitled to claim free school meals for their children.

I read an article today with another view - that rich people should all be made to pay for private education so as to take the load off the state!

But you still had enough left over to pay your bills. Why is it so difficult to accept that the majority of people just do not have money left over for school fees after paying for basics?

By the way, the majority of children at my local independent school are from overseas or boarders from outside the area. Very few locals are daft enough to send their children there, when the local comp achieves better results and offers a wider curriculum, despite not being able to expel the disruptive ones.

Where did you read that Fitzy? The other side of that argument is that if wealthy parents sent their children to state schools they might make more of an effort to make sure they're well funded.

State schools receive about £5,000 per pupil.It's nonsense to state that private schools are saving the state that much - maybe it would if they received the £35,000 that some private schools charge.

You like Frank Field Annie read what he had to say about it
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-working-parents-lose-out-on-free-school-meals-9747550.html

Ana Just wanted to clarify something. Poor unemployed families are eligible for free school meals, but poor working families usually aren't eligible. It's an anomaly and one which should be changed. That's what I meant pages ago about changing the criteria for claiming free school meals.

x post with trisher. Please read the link which trisher just posted for a fuller explanation of what I've just posted. Frank Field is right.

Sorry Ana misread the name. Need to put my glasses on! Worth reading anyway.

I apologise - I was thinking back to my single-parent working days when children automatically qualified for free school meals if the family income was under a certain amount.

I'm still not sure that free school meals for all are the answer though. My GC only like certain offerings and take packed lunches on the other days. Can't be worse than the scoops of solid mash with grey lumps we had to put up with though...

It's just another example of how the poor are being targeted Ana there was a time we had a caring society, where the poorest were looked after. It's gone now.

I heard on the TODAY programme Radio 4 that the state education system subsidises independent schools and a number of them "hide behind" charitable status. Don't know if this is true. But I think the suggested policy has as usual not been thought through...

Another point is that many schools use pupil premium funding for breakfast clubs, so poorer children already receive breakfast and lunch.

Although pupils whose parents work after being unemployed aren't eligible for free school meals, they are eligible for a free or subsidised breakfast for six years after their parents were unemployed. Stupidly, FSM funding can't be used for breakfast or homework clubs.

Pupil premium is paid to schools according to the number of children eligible for FSM. It's worth £1320 for primary school pupils and £935 for secondary school pupils and is payable for six years, even if the parents are no longer eligible for FSM, so a total of £6000+. Some schools have a third to a half of pupils in receipt of pupil premium. A few big comprehensives receive over a £1,000,000 extra.

Crucially, the schools don't have to spend the money only on the pupil premium pupils. Many spend the money on counsellors, mentors, behaviour coaches or family liaison teams, who can be accessed by all pupils, although their focus is on poorer pupils.

Pupil premium funding has enabled schools to set up breakfast clubs, which can be used by all pupils, although pupil premium pupils often receive their breakfast free or heavily subsidised. Breakfast clubs have proved to be effective in ensuring that pupils have eaten before lessons begin and have improved morning punctuality.

Ana School lunches are more palatable than they were, but I'm still not convinced they're necessarily healthy and I still think that any extra cash could be spent more effectively.

You're right trisher. The argument for refusing entitlement to FSM for children of low-income working families was that parents received money through working tax credits, which could be used for food. However, working tax credit has now been cut and it's almost impossible for a working couple to receive it. The only parents who can now receive working tax credit are usually single parents on a very low income. Child tax credit has also been restricted to two children, so tough luck if you have an "accident" or two adults with more than two children from previous relationships get together.

It's a strange assumption that this is the whole of the Labour party's education policy. It is just one part of it.
Because you don't agree with this does not mean the whole of the policy is rubbish - unless you are very right wing, of course.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/07/free-school-meals-universal-benefits-labour

There was never a time when the poorest were looked after, Barnados street children, workhouses, soup kitchens, just what has changed ? Street children are now neglected children, workhouses are now hostels and families living in one room, soup kitchens are now food banks . Free school meals will change all this ?

It's a start, Annie. Better than nothing, I think.

The Liberal Democrats may have made a serious mistake when they aquiesced in the Tory policy of raising tuition fees as part of the Coalition deal and there is no doubt that cost the party a lot of credibilty and support, but we should acknowledge that only happened in exchange for the pupil premium policy which has benefitted so many children. The smaller party in a coalition government inevitably gets blamed for the unpopular policies but never gets the credit for the good policies

I guess what bugs me is the assumption that poor=inadequate. Are there many families today that really can't afford to give their kids a bowl of porridge or weetabix in the morning? Yes there are inadequate parents who will give their kids a chocolate bar but is that just because they are poor? Help poor families but also target those who need extra support in parenting. feeding every child isn't the answer long term surely?

No Jen, we have to win an election, this is the start , untill labour is in power there will be no - just a start for the poorest, you will not accept this Jen but it is a fact, we will not sgree, you have said your principles are more important than labour winning , I say sod principles, high principles do not put a roof over the heads of the homeless, build houses for families forced into private lets, , stop zero contracts

, these are my principles, give shelter to the homeless, homes for families, stop benefit cuts for the disabled , stop grammer schools and spend money on comprehensives, stop killing off the NHS, you worry about trident I worry about these vunerable people

Strangely enough, Annie, those are my principles, too. Can you show me where I have said they are not?
Stopping Trident will pay for them, too.

I think if you look at my posts on here, you will see I support all those things you say. So does Corbyn.
However, all you do on here is attack Corbyn.
Perhaps you need to change tack and support the labour leader, rather than attacking all the time.
It's not getting you anywhere, is it?

Corbyn is certaintly getting us somewhere, into the wilderness yesrs again. And you replied in a question to me some time ago that would not give up you principles even if it meant lsbour would lose. Such betrayal of the party is not easily forgotten Jen, this is why I doubt your claims you were canvassing through the eighties, I accept you may have voted labour but you could not have csrried door knocking or attended party conferences, you would have experience the distrust and dislike of the far left by the voters,

You said earlier free school meals were a start, whrn is this going to happen Jen? When Corbyn is PM.

I will not support a weak leader who supports militants and is supported by the communist party, political suicide is certain but you stay in denial.

Guess they charge what the market will stand. But some people have to live on that kind of money.
Where I used to live there were just 2 options for private at primary level. In one of them you could only get the uniform from a supplier who was a family member of the head. Such larks.
When Free Schools were being heavily promoted about 5 years ago, several struggling prep schools applied to become Free Schools, thus getting direct state funding instead of having to find paying customers. I wonder how they are faring.

I agree with you suzied. I find it extremely patronising. My children were never hungry when I was unemployed. However, I could have done with some extra cash to buy shoes (I'm sure most parents know that teenage boys seem to grow a shoe size overnight), money for bus fares so that children could go to after-school clubs, money for my children to go to the cinema with friends, money so that we could go out for the day, money for the endless non-uniform days and charity events, etc etc. My children gave up asking me for money and sometimes lied to the school and their friends about why they couldn't go out or contribute to extra-curricular activities and stopped asking friends round, but they didn't starve.

You are being more and more ridiculous, Annie.
When have I ever said I went to party conferences? You just make things up, and make yourself look vindictive.
You're welcome to it.
You started this thread asking what we thought about charging VAT on private school fees to pay for free school meals. You appear to have forgotten all about that in your zeal to put down anyone who supports the leadership of the Labour party.
Sorry, but it's people like you who are failing the party you profess to love. Your complaints are doing nothing to help it, and just seem petty and spiteful.