V.A.T, in school fees

I didn't rubbish the whole idea dj. I wrote that I think charging VAT would be a good idea. Michael Wilshaw and Michael Gove agree with it too, so does that make you and me right wingers?

This is Gaby Hinsliff's view, also in the Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/06/free-school-meals-everyone-prove-it-works-labour-policy

Michael Gove, a perfect example of a leader yes?

Lots of children do starve. They are the ones whose parents go to food banks.
I never starved when I was at school, but I got free school meals. I was also given a pair of shoes by an English teacher in front of the rest of the class because she had noticed the state of my school shoes. I took them home but refused to wear them. My parents could not throw them away, though, and my sister wore them.
I am ashamed that this sort of thing is still happening over fifty years later.
Some of you are acting as if this is the only change that Corbyn has said he wants to make. That's just rubbish. It's just one improvement in his education policy.

"Nine boroughs have more than 20 per cent of primary and secondary pupils receiving free school meals and will lose money when the Government reforms the national funding formula, according to the Education Policy Institute.

Labour analysis says that in Tower Hamlets, where 36 per cent of children get free dinners, cuts of 2.7 per cent are proposed. Lambeth, Camden, Hackney and Tower Hamlets will see annual losses of 1.5 per cent to 2.8 per cent, despite having between 26 and 31 per cent of children on free school meals."

From the Evening Standard. (Osborne not doing his job properly.)
This is why free school meals for all primary school kids is a good idea. It's not just about you and your kids. It's about all kids.

I said you didn't go to party conferences .

No one can help the Labour party with Corbyn as leader, you are an intellegent woman, I wonder if truthfully you know this is so but cannot cope with admitting that like me you were wrong

I was talking about generally on this thread, daphne, not you in particular.

Do you have a vote in local elections next month, Annie?
If so, who are you going to vote for? A labour candidate led by a politician you so obviously despise?
Or another party that you disagree with, just so you can show him you despise him?
Good luck with that choice.
When I didn't vote for Labour it was because I positively agreed with the policies of the other party I voted for.

I have to agree with dj . That there are children going to bed tonight who are hungry.

Tonight I watched i Daniel Blake this country for all it's wealth and "do gooders" should be ashamed.

Aha! Thanks dj. I've actually tried to stay on-topic. There's some kind of consensus across a wide spectrum of political opinion that the days of special treatment for independent schools are numbered. It's ironic that Labour has picked up on one of Gove's ideas.

My concern is that if there's ever going to be a billion extra for education, it could be spent more effectively than on universal free meals and I've given reasons, with which people are free to disagree. I agree with Gaby Hinsliff in the link I just posted (and the other one I posted a couple of days ago).

JessM This is what happened to one independent school which converted to a free school:

www.batleynews.co.uk/news/education/batley-school-requires-improvement-1-5477146

Admittedly, it has now improved and just scraped "good" in its last inspection.

Many prep schools have closed over the last few years after applications to become free schools failed. Others have been taken over by bigger chains.

Yes, there are gillybob. Their parents don't need benefit caps and cuts to tax credits. They need money to feed and clothe their own children. The parents sometimes need support, not to have SureStart centres closed and social worker numbers cut, etc etc. However, I still feel that universal free school meals aren't the answer.

What did you think of "i Daniel Blake". I saw it a few weeks ago at the cinema. It was too close to reality for me to say I actually enjoyed it, although there was some great writing and acting. People who said it was just fiction made me angry.

No, it wasn't fiction. It makes me angry, too, daphne, when people say that.
When it finished there was silence for at least a couple of minutes. I've never heard such a silent audience before when they filed out. I think it was shock.
It was based on interviews with lots of people in similar situations.

"When the School Food Plan commissioned by Michael Gove received the coalition government’s backing in 2013, we hoped that the acknowledgement given to the education and health benefits of free school meals would be met with sustained positive action. It is worth remembering that the School Plan relied on evidence from the Labour pilots introduced by former education secretary Ed Balls."

Not Gove's idea. The pilots were done by Labour.

labourlist.org/2017/04/corbyns-free-schools-meals-plan-is-a-truly-labour-policy-that-will-help-pupils-in-mind-and-body/

"The extension of free meals to all primary school pupils would certainly boost attempts to tackle poverty, lifting thousands of children above the breadline, providing financial respite for hard-pressed parents and removing the social stigma endured by many pupils who qualify already.

An estimated 1.2 million children in England living below the poverty line missed out on free school meals in 2013, according to research by the Children’s Society. Half of these were simply not entitled to support under eligibility rules that restricted entitlement to pupils whose parents were unemployed or earning less than £16,200.

The impact of this eligibility “cliff edge” can be dramatic: while 70% of children on free school meals ate a school canteen lunch regularly, take-up slumps to 20% among the children of poorer parents who are in work, suggesting many parents struggle to meet the £450 annual cost for each child."

From the Guardian.

Jen nobody could seriously argue that giving all school children a free meal would be a bad thing. But would the cost justify the benefit given all the other things tax money could be directed at, particularly when targeted at those who really need help rather than everybody, most of whom don't? And while there is no doubt a case for charging VAT on private school fees, the effect will be to make private education even more exclusively available to the very wealthy, and there would be an inevitable increase in the cost of state education if a significant number transferred to state schools. And why on earth link the two other than as a gimmicky soundbite? There is some merit in both ideas but I would want to see much more detailed, and preferably independent, analysis of the likely effect before they got my vote.

It's getting harder on benefits *daphnedil" - freeze in annual rise (unlike the retirement pension which has gone up a few quid over the last 3 years) prices in shops rising, more stringent signing on requirements, and so on.
86% of the impact of benefit cuts has fallen on women.
And this week's special - regarding third and subsequent children (it applies to all new claims for in and out of work benefit if I understand correctly) - so if your partner walks out leaving you with 4 kids, and you have to make a claim you won't get any allowance made for kids 3 an 4. Shocking policy that will increase child poverty.
As

To be honest I felt like I had been through a wringer after I watched it daphnedill . Sorry for going slightly off topic here, but I don't think people understand how bad things can get. Daniel (and many like him) are victims of a failed system that allows some people to make living on benefits a lifestyle choice when they know their way around the system and others, like Daniel are badly let down. I couldn't bear the scenes where he was trying to help the newly arrived Katie and her small children to get their rightful benefits only to be thrown out of the office by the over zealous manager and his security man.

It made it all the more harrowing seeing some familiar land marks in and around Newcastle city centre. I would highly recommend this film but it does not make easy viewing.

Daniel Blake was a fictional character, the events were not.

The problem is that the implication is that the events are widespread and typical. You can't rely on I Daniel Blake as reliable evidence of that.

I don't think anyone is relying on I, Daniel Blake to inform their opinions of the way this government is treating children and families on benefits.
However, I, Daniel Blake did resonate with lots of people who care about what the government is doing.

Did anyone watch Emily Thornberry on Andrew Marr saying she supports the idea, being a product of free school meals herself, and having to queue up with a different coloured ticket?

I agree Fitzy, a fictional film of the experiences of one man in one town cannot be said to represent every unemployed person in every benefit office in the country,

I was surprised Thornberry freely admitted she is not a pacifist and didn't hold back on Livingston either and her experiences of free school meals in her school days. They were at one time so cruel but with these electronic card things I hope this can't happen, I still don't agree with free meals for all

The events are widespread and typical Fitzy54 I don't know where you live but I could take you to estates where children are underfed and where families are suffering.
There is a stigma to free school meals, I remember taking children on school trips, packed lunches were provided for those entitled to free meals but they invariably brought a lunch box so they were the same as the others. The heartbreaking thing was that you knew the family couldn't really afford to do this.
I sometimes struggle to pay the VAT when I have work done on my house. It would be much easier for me if it wasn't charged, but that isn't a legitimate reason to stop charging it. I don't see why school fees are any different.

Agreed, trisher. I had some work done, and the plumber insisted on telling me the price before VAT. That makes not a bit of difference to me or to most people.
A business is a business. Private schools are run as businesses, and should be charged VAT. Parents are most definitely paying for extra value when sending children to private schools.

So it should be law that state school teachers who do private tutoring should be registered so they can be checked for paying tax on the fees they charge ,

www.theguardian.com/global/2017/apr/09/focus-brexit-obliterates-social-policy-agenda