V.A.T, in school fees

The difference, to me, is using a large sum (from VAT) to subsidise a program that has not been fully determined. Better, to me, is to source and implement the new food program from school funding from whatever taxes, including VAT. Not spend to but spend from. Seems squiggy, to me, to spend to a sum. DH says squiggy, to mean possibility to tend crooked.

if we are going to bring builders into this - will parents with kids at private schools have the option of paying the fees in cash and thus avoid paying VAT? :-)

Has anybody considered the fact that many school kitchens were closed and their equipment sold off? Imagine how much it would cost to put all this back again. Also, where some of my family live, the schools have very bad Ofsteds. So the parents do make sacrifices to send their children to "private" school; in this city, it has always been traditional that if the child can pass an entrance exam, they are eligible for means-tested fees. So if you are on a low income, go for it! A very good, virtually free, education.

Exactly, Margi, the cost of kitchen refurbishment, equipment - fridges, combi ovens, serving trolleys, hot plates, dining room furniture, crockery, cutlery. And, most importantly trained staff to plan nutrious meals and ensure against wastage, plus more supervision. The costs are enormous, far beyond the figure JC is talking about.

My view entirely,GranDi. Always a way round vat if you have a good accountant. The naivete of Momentum is pathetic. Liked this headline in the Press to-day; Experts scoff at Labour's School meal plan.

Though I can see a case for VAT on school fees. I can see itself causing problems. A hefty 20% increase in fees I think would price out a significant number of children from the private system.
These children would go into an already overcrowded and straining state system and the cost of their education would fall back to the state and tax payer. Chances are they would take places in the better state school because of where they live and push other children into a poorer schools.
So I doubt the cost effectiveness of a offering all primary free school dinners would be there . Which many parents don't take up even in the infants years because of poor quality cold and tiny portions if my grandchilden primary school anything to go by Lots of children and parents opt out and send children pack lunches

VAT is payable on virtually every service. There is no reason for private schools to be exempt. If the state wrongly accuses you of a crime, you have to pay VAT on the legal fees to defend yourself. There are arguments against every tax. There would be more money raised than needed for school meals so it would do more than that for the education budget.
Whether this is the best place to spend the bulk of the money is debatable but it is good to see people talking about how to spend money in positive ways for a change rather than which group to cause harm to.

GranDi. VAT is still payable if people pay in cash. You mean can they pay under the table. If people commit fraud they should be caught and penalised. Why is fraud by people on benefits bad (which is obviously is) but tax fraud excusable? You don't not pass a law because people might find ways to break it. You catch them and punish them. Maybe if as much was spent on tax fraud as on benefit fraud, we could catch people who would behave in that way. I cannot see why you think that behaviour would be reasonable or acceptable.

BeamsmeupScottie What has this got to do with Momentum? They are a non affiliation organisation with around 20,000 members.

Lillie would you like to source any of the reports you state have queried the nutritional value of school meals?
School meals are subjected to strict nutritional standards
www.schoolfoodplan.com/actions/school-food-standards/
Yes I suppose private schools may provide better lunches with organic and carefully sourced ingredients, possibly because they are making large profits, not charging VAT and claiming charitable status. However we should remember that for many working parents who are struggling to make ends meet and using food banks a healthy cooked meal for their children would be very welcome.
There is already a huge divide in our society and at least making sure children are well fed might promote some social mobility and help the poorest who will never have the option of private education no matter how hard they work.

Momentum are running the Labour party at the moment.

Everything to do with .momentum, they are there to support Corbyn.

We have a boys boarding school here, some local boys sit an entrance exam and if successful enter the school on reduced fees, their parents are not wealthy, one couple run a corner shop and open from 7.00am untill 11.00pm , they couldn't afford higher fees. Not all parents are high payed professionals just as not all benefit claimants are cheats, but some benefit claimants are cheats so a hard working couple are to pay for school meals for not only genuine needs but those who play the system.

I have nothing against free school meals. But think it is shameful to fuel class-warfare by suggesting funding it from the private school section. Labour needs to woo the middle-classes not alienate them.

Gosh what a lot of issues in one thread. Charitable status of private schools, whether school meals are a good thing, whether education should be VAT free and an underlying assumption that private education is better and something to be aspired to. State schools, private schools, some are good, some are bad. Worth remembering that any old bod can set up a school and tell the parents what they want to hear.

The far left believe they will win the election because they have the largest membership number,

If some parents who send their children to private schools because of poor local schools and cannot afford the extra tax they will form free schools

My parents ran a corner shop and I was 'a professional' (If not well-payed). I can tell you the shop made more money and although the hours were long the work was no where near as hard.

This only goes to show, Jayanna, what a divisive subject this is. Labour are in such a mess at the moment they will grab any old piece of policy (this has been around for years) to get a headline. The polls are showering doom on results for the LP at the local elections, so desperate times need desperate measures.

Very confusing- I thought GP meant grand parent but here I discovered not but General Practitioners. Maybe using the word Doctors would have been better.

I do think private education is a service so should include VAT. But if private school fees go up too much some parents will have to transfer their children to state school making that an extra expense to the education system.

I do think saying this tax will pay for a specific thing as it never works out that way. If money is ring fenced it is often spent in a hurry in not the best way at the end of a year to sop it being lost

Thank you, trisher, for the school plan report. Sorry, I can't lay my hands on the reports you mention, I am not in school this week being in France, where we all know healthy, nutritious school lunches are of the best in the world!
And seeing the wonderful lunch awaiting me today only goes to show how good eating habits in school are kept for life. (Not the floppy sandwiches or greasy offerings mentioned by some on here).

I get annoyed with the new idea that every spending plan has to be balanced by a specific tax or saving....hypothecation?
Surely we should just see income as a total amount and decide on spending priorities separately.
I don't think "I'll cut down on the wine to pay for a window cleaner"...(or vice versa)...just decide what I can afford.

I was saying just that earlier allule. I think it was because a lot of people swallowed the idea that the Conservatives could be trusted with the economy and the LP couldn't which was rubbish from both directions - as would completely the opposite belief have been.

I think I would be happier with percentages for some areas, e.g., the National Health. It is complex and really does need to be worked out before new ideas are put in place but, as I said, if you want to put VAT on school fees say so, if you want to give free school meals, say so and show us a balance (overall) budget before the election but this has a bit of a distasteful feel about it.

Your wine and window cleaner example is a good one. A countries budget is not at all like a household one; it is so much more complex.

Beamsmeupscottie Of course Momentum don't run Labour. What a shame that it is not possible to have an intellectual debate about this without people posting propaganda.

Trisher, I think a 16 hour a day is hard work, you don't,

Private schools can have a charitable status because they give free and subsidised places to families who could not afford private education. This facility is there for all, you just have to do the legwork yourself and find out if you qualify.
Contributing to education is compulsory and those of us who used private education have paid twice so think it unfair to then add VAT.

Private schooling saves the government over £1 billion a year .