Gransnet forums

News & politics

Turkey Referendum

(37 Posts)
POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 11:11:56

I think today's Turkey Referendum is one of the greatest concerns in politics today, anybody else?

Erdogan is double headed and if today's vote goes in his favour then I honestly believe Turkey will see the end of democracy and bring about a dictatorship.

Erdogan is a dangerous dictator in the waiting and I for one hope he looses the referendum which is set to give him the Presidential Power to override the democracy Turkey has in place.

I don't think there will be any chance Erdogan will not win and it will be a case of watch this space. Will he take Turkey towards Russia / Syria / Iran or will he hold with NATO and the West?

The Kurds must be very worried if he gains Presidential Power over the Turkish Parliament, not only them but Judges, Intellectual Elite and those who oppose him.

I just hope the Referendum has been held fairly but I don't even believe that could happen with Erdogan. I truly hope I have the wrong opinion of Erdogan but I fear for not only Turkeys future but the games Turkey will play politically on the World stage if he achieves his aim of his dominance over democracy.

whitewave Sun 16-Apr-17 11:17:52

I agree it is a concern, but certainly not the most important one.

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 11:22:14


I am glad you agree it is a concern but Who said it was the most important one?

henetha Sun 16-Apr-17 13:31:16

Surely all sensible people are going to vote against this, aren't they? It seems a most extraordinary referendum to me.

petra Sun 16-Apr-17 13:48:17

I think it's a given that he will win the referendum. It's obvious that he's given up all hope of joining the eu and with that he won't stop migrants/ refugees crossing into Greece.

nigglynellie Sun 16-Apr-17 15:30:48

I think if the arrangement over refugees falls apart it could become a major concern!!

Fitzy54 Sun 16-Apr-17 16:00:47

The Times today says it's on a knife edge.
Clearly a huge grab for power and of enormous importance to Turkey, but I haven't got a handle on just how bad it might be in terms of the international situation. If he loses he will still have his current power and influence, and I would think that will still let him have his way in terms of foreign policy?

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 16:04:53

The refugee situation is only part of the 'possible' concerns in my opinion.

Erdogan given a 'free hand' to basically ride rough shod over Turkeys present status of being a 'constitutionally' democratic, secular country 'could' be the start of a Muslim imposed Dictatorship.

Erdogan has since taking the Presidency in 2014 systematically jailed judges, journalists, political rivals and the Military Coup failed miserably .

Which direction will he take Turkey? East or West , he has tried to please both at times but given overall power making decisions what does he really want?

Will he make Turkey a hard line Islamic Nation?

I think there is quite a good chance Turkey under Erdogan could well become a problem for NATO , The West and the Turkish Referendum will have given him unrestricted power over the Turkey Parliament, Laws , Media etc. and he will not be shy to wield his power over the Turkish People.

Anya Sun 16-Apr-17 16:40:46

My daughter worked as an English teacher in Ankara in the 1990s. It was a very different country then, truly a secular country.

Anya Sun 16-Apr-17 16:41:51

There is no doubt that Erdogan will win.

varian Sun 16-Apr-17 16:50:09

We went on a conducted tour of historic sites in Turkey a few years ago. Our guide who spoke excellent English seemed very knowledgable, indeed came across as quite erudite, a very well educated person in both the arts and the sciences.

As a tourist guide his knowledge of history had to be good, but as a Turkish citizen, it was clear that he had to self-censor up to a point. Even so, it was clear from the passion with which he spoke that he was immensely proud of Kemal Ataturk who founded the secular state that is modern Turkey.

He pointed out to us that this meant freedom of religion and no legal connection of politics and religion. When we heard the call to prayer in Istanbul, he showed us that some people went to the mosque but most did not.

However, even then, it was clear that Erdogan had a different agenda. He was spending umpteen millions building a guilded palace for himself, bigger than Buckingham Palace but in the vulgar style we now associate with Donald Trump. His wife wore a veil. At that time it was illegal for teachers and civil servants to wear veils but that law has since been rescinded.

When I heard that Theresa May had gone straight from her meeting with Trump to visit Erdogan, I thought it was a joke- but no, she actually did that, as the post-brexit UK would be so desperate for any trade that our values mean nothing.

I think Turkey is pivotal country which matters a great deal tgo the stability of the West and I hope that Erdogan is not allowed to become an outright dictator.

hildajenniJ Sun 16-Apr-17 17:54:48

I visited Turkey in the 1970's when my parents lived there. My Dad was working for the British Embassy and they spent two years in Ankara. I truly hope that the no vote will win, but fear that it won't. Erdogan had a lot of followers. Changing from a Parliamentary democracy to a Presidential one is a retrograde step in my opinion. Erdogan is a hard line Muslim and I fear that he will undo all the good work that Kemal Atatürk did for the modern Turkish state.

varian Sun 16-Apr-17 22:03:49

Erdogan has won by a narrow majority. Turkey has lost. The third populist disaster in less than a year.

whitewave Sun 16-Apr-17 22:10:25

48-52. Where have we heard those numbers before? And just like the other one we are being told that although the result was incredibly close that they will plough on with the changes ignoring the views of the large majority. My sympathies with the 48%.

And so it goes.

POGS Sun 16-Apr-17 23:35:28

Erdogan has detained , sacked people by the ' tens of thousands' since taking his Presidency.

Lord knows how scared some people must be feeling tonight. He will now have even more power to 'silence' his critics and the Judiciary, Opposition Parties , Kurds, Journalists and Media Operators , The Military are all especially in the frame.

Turkey is no longer a Democratic Country after this vote, it has given rise to yet another Middle East Dictatorship. I firmly believe Erdogan will also replace secularism with a hard line Muslim Control in time.

The Opposition Parties are challenging the irregularities found over the voting but they will get no where, Erdogan probably made sure of that before the count even started.

He ' could' hold power until 2029 . All State Bureaucracy is now held by one man. How depressing.

He will probably bring back the Death Penalty as he has shown an interest in doing so for years.

This is certainly a time when I would be happy to be mistaken about my thoughts!

Anya Mon 17-Apr-17 07:27:45

This will affect their tourist industry too.

Anya Mon 17-Apr-17 07:28:30

Ataturk would be turning in his grave.

Iam64 Mon 17-Apr-17 08:19:29

Totally agree Anya. I enjoyed visits to Istanbul before Erdogan was in power. It was vibrant, cosmopolitan, friendly, with wonderful buildings (and food). Friends were planning last summer, to spend a week in Istanbul in December, partly work related. I declined the invitation to join them because of Erdogan and their trip was subsequently cancelled for the same reason.
His supporters are already being attacked. It will definitely affect tourism on the coast as well as the major cities.

gillybob Mon 17-Apr-17 08:36:47

Turkeys tourist industry has been in decline for a couple of years now but this will undoubtedly be the final nail in the coffin. Who wants to go on holiday and feel unsafe? Sadly Muslim extremists seem to be hell bent on ruining the tourist industry for the likes of Tunisia, Egypt and now Turkey.

TerriBull Mon 17-Apr-17 09:34:28

We seem to be living in the age of "The Dictator" where hatchet faced men all over the world appear hell bent on causing mayhem. Turkey sounds such an interesting country in so many ways, but I wouldn't fancy visiting it now, I'm sad it was on my list. Erdogan seems hell bent on supressing any sort of dissent or even reasonable debate and worryingly wants to bring back the death penalty which will make it impossibe for them to join the EU. It's position in the world as a bridge between Europe and the Middle East is a very crucial one and particulary pivotal as it borders Syria. I hope it doesn't eventually become the sort of closed society Iran was a few years back and maybe still in is to a certain extent. It would certainly be contrary to Ataturk's vision of the modern country he wanted it to be.

Cherrytree59 Mon 17-Apr-17 09:44:13

I wonder what will become of all Atatürk photos & images that I was displayed all over Turkey.
In the years that I have spent as a tourist in the beautiful country he was revered by most Turks.

Cherrytree59 Mon 17-Apr-17 09:45:13

Oops 'that was'

POGS Mon 17-Apr-17 11:16:32

I haven't heard Cyprus mentioned but I hope with all my heart Cyprus is allowed to be 'left alone' to get on with it's own decisions.

Cyprus has been trying to built bridges I hope Erdogan and his cohort's don't stir up trouble over time.

Ilovecheese Mon 17-Apr-17 14:10:16

Does anybody know why the people of Turkey voted for him? What were their reasons?

petra Mon 17-Apr-17 16:00:40

For years Erdogan has been supporting the strict Islamist areas of Turkey with billions of Lira.
This was always on the cards. When he was Mayor of Istanbul he was inprisoned for saying amongst other things:
The Mosques are our barracks
The domes our helmets
The minarets our bayonets
And the faithful our soldiers.
He also said: Democracy is like a bus ride, I will get off when I want. This has been planned for many years.
Does the visa free travel still stand as was negotiated when he agreed to stop the migrants/ refugees coming to Europe?