Can we really Trust Teresa May with a blank cheque?

In the case of the attack on the bridge (Westminster) it didn't need more police on guard outside the building, but they should all have been armed on that duty there.
MP's had voted against that previously.

So how would your scenarios differ RAR. You seemed to have missed that one.

Just to help out. May says there are more police because she cut the numbers hugely and the allowed the numbers to rise a little so, if you are happy to con the public, there are more police than there were - after she had cut such large numbers. If you choose to let such people as May pull the wool over your eyes in this way no one can stop you but if you base your opinions on lies I can guess what the quality of those opinions will be.

RAR.

but they should all have been armed on that duty there.

What does that actually mean please?

MP's had voted against that previously.

MPs voted against what?

The police who stand on guard outside Westminster ( called a duty)
MP's had previously voted not to have armed police.

The scenarios would not differ, so having more general police would not affect them, having more may be good for general crime though.T May isn't 'pulling any wool over my eyes' thanks, I know police numbers have been cut.

Oh for goodness sake!! rose First line of defence -what on earth do you think that means? Sure I don't have to spell it out. I thought you were brighter than that.

No rose you are being deliberately obtuse. Local bobbies collect intelligence about their local community. That is the first line of defence.

Having the 20,000 more would mean they would all get time off, and would feel more awake when on duty. It would mean they all felt appreciated. Why do you think May was booed offstage at the convention?
The police I know are not radical leftwingers.

As in the Houses of Parliament/Westminster Palace RAR? But you could use the armed police who come from the general police for that.

We patently do have armed police - what we do not do is arm ALL our police RAR. Personally I would think the terrorists would have won if all our police, on an everyday basis, were armed. We are training more so they can take on that role if we need them but there is a basic shortage of police - BECAUSE MAY CUT THEM. That is the problem. That is what the police say. They also say they do not want to be generally armed.

Not obtuse at all ww but policing these days is not Dixon Of Dock Green stuff.
durhamjen I can assure you, they do all get time off, but when there is a serious
Incident police leave is cancelled for the forces who are nearest to it.
I am not disagreeing with the case of more police generally, but with the case that it would make us all 'safer' in some way.It may turn out that the men involved are known to police and intelligence services already, so having more police would not help!
However, since few on this thread would agree with me if I said 'looks like rain tomorrow' we shall have to agree to disagree about this.

Well at least you are admitting that police numbers have been cut RAR. It is a true so difficult to deny - and they were cut by Theresa May.

So, you are saying your scenarios would not be changed by armed police or unarmed police. My first question would be why do you want armed police in that case? My second is, as both whitewave and Jen have said, the point of the extra police in the force and on the ground is so they have time and the possibility to be part of the community again.

I once lived in a place where all the police were armed. I found it quite shocking at first to see a traffic cop with a gun in his holster but I did get used to it.

However it is not something I would ever want to see in this country. I have always been proud that our British police are, for the most part, unarmed.

We have to have armed police for quick response in these dreadful situations but that should not be what we expect to see when we encounter the "bobby on the beat". British police are very brave, well trained (although under-resourced) at have the respect of the vast majority of UK citizens.

GGM2 you are stating the obvious.As a country we do not want armed police.
However, as that day at Westminster bridge and Houses Of Parliament showed,
The police on regular duty there should be armed ( and probably will be soon.)

But you don't think we should increase the numbers of ordinary police from whom these armed police protecting Parliament are drawn?

I don't think it was me being obtuse. I have now - it think - worked out what you are trying to argue - no increase in the police numbers - is that right?

Actually, although I don't disagree that we may need to arm the police in specific places, that would not have saved the poor people on the bridge and there will always be an area these sick losers can find to attack innocents.

Owen Jones has just given an impassioned interview about May politicising her speech (glad I wasn't the only one who noticed) after entering a agreement with Labour not to campaign.

You just can't trust the women.

No, am not at all against increasing police numbers.It won't help keep us safe from attacks on the street though, from idealogical psychos/ rebels against society/ those with a grudge.All they need is a vehicle or bread knife.
Each police force has the number of armed police it requires, if an incident is big enough it draws on neighbouring forces.Yes, armed police are normal police officers.No, it wouldn't have saved those on the bridge if police had been around .
Those officers on duty at the HOP could have been armed if MP's hadn't turned it down previously.If the attacker had burst through the doors he could have killed a few other people as well as the poor policeman who died of stab wounds.

I know how it works Jen. I have a friend who is often away these days.

I have now got there. You are saying MPs turned down the arming of police at the HoP. "When facts change I change my mind" I would imagine they will look at it again and take advice from the police.

I was impressed by the strength and clarity of the retired officers criticisms. Armed police come from the ranks of 'ordinary officers' but in my experience, are far from being what rar calls ordinary officers.
The point made by Manchesters chief constable and referred to here is well made. Local officers know their patch, build contacts and relationships.
I hope these dreadful acts of terrorism expose the risks caused by the cuts. The police, NHS staff, teachers, social workers and of course youth workers. Youth work in its many forms was important in engaging disaffected young people. The often linked with local police - honestly if I wasn't so angry I might weep

Boris Johnson two years ago pleaded with May not to risk the safety of London with police cuts.

t.co/R4HwyF2Hk6

It was after the killing in Paris, when Cameron was PM.

John Pilger's view on what happened in Manchester and why, and whether May can be trusted.

johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know

My feeling is that we need more local police back - for all the reasons mentioned of local information etc. Also to have more Police Stations open where the public can just walk in. Some local areas here you need an appointment to see a Bobby! There are also other things to help police - I know of an area where there was a Community shop / help centre / cafe etc but also a place for passing on information to the police. People gave little bits of info they heard to the man who ran the centre and he passed it on when the local Bobby came in for his coffee - worked very well.
Just to let DD know - there are three types of Police Force in France - the Police Municipal - which do duties similar to Traffic wardens and other local duties. Not all towns have the Municipal police.
The Gendarmes who are the Military police and are country wide and do investigative police work. They are the most like our police force - but they are all armed.
Then there are the Police National - CRS - they are the heavy mob and are very well armed and are in charge of terrorist investigations and also do things such as deportations.
The Gendarmes and CRS police are posted away from the area they come from and have family.

That's interesting welshwife. Maybe we need more diversified/specialist police forces these days.

Don't all police start at the bottom and work up or out, depending on what they want to specialise in.
There are cyber specialists in the police force, but they started as police constables, just like firearms officers.

That's why we need to have more ordinary police officers to start with. Bring back the ones who were made redundant over the past six years, many of whom will be working as security guards somewhere.
Bring back the firearms specialists who have been made redundant.